# Grammar Nazi speaks: This needs stopped! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 23, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120 "2003-05-23T21:55:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/1 "2003-05-23T21:55:08Z")
This is driving me nuts! I keep running across this, especially on eBay, for some reason: the use of the verb “need” with a past-tense verb. For example: “This is a very nice platter but needs polished” or “The hinge on the lid needs replaced” It just sounds WRONG to me. When I read things like this, I kind of get that “chewing on tinfoil” feeling. This site [http://www.hio.ft.hanze.nl/thar/grgerund.htm](http://www.hio.ft.hanze.nl/thar/grgerund.htm) says that one may use either to+infinitive _or_ the gerund form (ends in -ing) to follow the verb “need”, depending whether it is active or passive: > [@](#): > > \*Jack needs to buy a new computer (he has to buy a new one) > > \*This computer needs repairing. (it has to be repaired) When did it become OK to leave out “to” or “to be” altogether? And why is it only done with inanimate objects? I’ve never heard anyone say: “People who talk like that need killed.” or “I think you need shut up.” In summary, JUST STOP IT! STOP IT, I SAY! I am hold my breath until people start using infinitives and/or gerunds again. Obligatory foul language: Fucktard, Fuckhat, Fuckstick, Asstard, Asshat, Fuckass, Stickass, Tardstick, Fuckasstardstickhatass. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/2 "2003-05-23T22:00:40Z")
Ah yes… To be or not to be, that is the question… ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/3 "2003-05-23T22:03:12Z")
i needs to change my ways… ---
**Author:** ![Jpeg\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@Jpeg\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jpeg_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/4 "2003-05-23T22:04:00Z")
You need calm down. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/5 "2003-05-23T22:07:56Z")
> [@](#): > > I am hold my breath until people start using infinitives and/or gerunds again. :dubious: Eh? Still holding your breath, I see. ---
**Author:** ![Jpeg\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@Jpeg\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jpeg_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/6 "2003-05-23T22:09:29Z")
Oh, sorry. You need _calm downing._ ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/7 "2003-05-23T22:12:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by blowero \* > \*\*Fuckasstardstickhatass. \*\* Wow, I bet there are some really good anagrams in that. But that’s too vulgar for MPSIMS and too gamelike for the Pit. Foiled again 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/8 "2003-05-23T22:14:03Z")
I hate to tell you this, blowero, but that’s a common usage in many areas of the U.S. Eccentric and regional, as far as I know, but definitely not rare, and not incorrect. It is used with verbs other than “need,” but only used in the construction you’ve seen: SUBJECT + VERB + (TO BE) + PAST PARTICIPLE. It would never be used with the constructions you listed as “I’ve never seen…”; it is definitely used with people: “Blowero needs spanked,” “Nametag needs taken down a peg.” ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/9 "2003-05-23T22:23:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nametag \*I hate to tell you this, blowero, but that’s a common usage in many areas of the U.S. Eccentric and regional, as far as I know, but definitely not rare, **and not incorrect**. It is used with verbs other than “need,” but only used in the construction you’ve seen: SUBJECT + VERB + (TO BE) + PAST PARTICIPLE. It would never be used with the constructions you listed as “I’ve never seen…”; it is definitely used with people: “Blowero needs spanked,” “Nametag needs taken down a peg.” **bolding mine** Actually, no. Being common, or not rare, does not make it “correct.” An astonishing number of people fark up their grammar all the time, but they’re usually just uneducated or lazy. Or both. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/10 "2003-05-23T22:24:28Z")
You need to start logging the locations of the authors of that construction. I have noticed a number of people from the areas surrounding Pittsburgh, PA and Akron and Canton, OH who speak this way. Interestingly, when Clevelanders do it, I generally find that they either grew up in or lived for a long period in one of the aforementioned areas. I would be curious as to its current extent\* as well as discovering how it originated. \*It may even be limited to specific neighborhoods in those areas, since it does not seem to be a majority of the inhabitants who speak that way, although it is frequently found there. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/11 "2003-05-23T22:25:18Z")
“But Judge, he needed killin’!” ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/12 "2003-05-23T22:28:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waenara \* > \*\* > Actually, no. Being common, or not rare, does not make it “correct.” > > An astonishing number of people fark up their grammar all the time, but they’re usually just uneducated or lazy. Or both. \*\* Yeah, but if everyone starts farking up their grammar consistantly in the same way, then the language changes, and the former fark up becomes correct. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/13 "2003-05-23T22:28:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, no. Being common, or not rare, does not make it “correct.” > > An astonishing number of people fark up their grammar all the time, but they’re usually just uneducated or lazy. Or both. Hey! We’ve got ourselves a Prescriptivist Grammarian! There is nothing inherently lazy in that construction and I know a number of educated people who speak that way. I’m not sure when regionalism slide into dialect, but if enough people are using it, it does tend to stop being incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/14 "2003-05-23T22:29:44Z")
slide **s** My typing is even worse than my grammar. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/15 "2003-05-23T22:41:09Z")
I had assumed many ebay sellers were of foreign origin. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/16 "2003-05-23T22:56:28Z")
I’ve heard this usage and it makes me crazy. “My car needs washed” Uh, OK… I’ve even heard it in TV dialogue. I keep hoping it’s a fad that will pass. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/17 "2003-05-23T23:18:34Z")
What tom said is correct. This is very common in Pittsburgh. I used to do this all the time, not even realizing that it was not correct. I had to get out of Pittsburgh and even then it took a couple years of the lady harping on me everytime I did it to break me of the habit. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/18 "2003-05-23T23:23:38Z")
Sometimes, the English language needs farking. ---
**Author:** ![mouthbreather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a698b9/32.png) [@mouthbreather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mouthbreather)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/19 "2003-05-23T23:25:41Z")
> [@](#): > > Grammatical convention is also abused in Pittsburgh speech patterns. The verb “to be” does not exist in Pittsburghese. After a heavy snowfall the weatherman says, “the streets need plowed.” This pattern is considered acceptable by a majority of locals. From here: [Pittsburghese: “Yinz guys wanna go dahntahn and git a Primanti’s sammich n’at?”](http://zeeb.library.cmu.edu/SAA-PghHostCmte/articles/Pittsburghese.html) > [@](#): > > A slew of peculiar terms and the absence of the verb “to be” also mark the dialect. Around Pittsburgh, “the lawn needs mowed.” From here: [On Pittsburgh tongues: a ‘sammich dahntahn’](http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0102/p03s01-ussc.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2003, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120/20 "2003-05-23T23:35:16Z")
I’m all for the evolution of language, but not when it evolves in stupid ways. “Lawn needs mowed?” Gah. Who let this crap get started? I blame it on the lack of ruler-wileding grammar nuns in our nation’s schools. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazi-speaks-this-needs-stopped/177120.md?page=2)