# Grammar Nazis - Is Lola a man? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 20, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627 "2012-12-20T14:28:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/41 "2012-12-21T13:05:15Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > This is not the worst of the Kink’s grammar problems. It always burns me up when I hear: > > “The only time I feel alright is by your siiiiiide.” > > That’s not a _time_. That’s a _place_. Either make it “the only \*place \*I feel alright is by your side” or “the only time I feel alright is when I’m by your side.” Nope. It is a standard grammatical usage called the [ellipses](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ellipses?s=t). > [@](#): > > 1. > > Grammar . > a. > the omission from a sentence or other construction of one or more words that would complete or clarify the construction, as the omission of _who are, while I am_, or _while we are_ from _I like to interview people sitting down_. > > b. > the omission of one or more items from a construction in order to avoid repeating the identical or equivalent items that are in a preceding or following construction, as the omission of _been to Paris_ from the second clause of _I’ve been to Paris, but they haven’t_. In this case, the full sentence would be something like, “The only time I feel alright is the time during which I’m by your side.” You flunked pedanticism. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/42 "2012-12-21T16:18:12Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > This essentially says that Ray Davies, instead of being the cleverest and wittiest songwriter of his peers - an exceptionally clever and witty lot - was an idiot. He wasn’t. > > But it really doesn’t matter, because you got the lyrics wrong. We know what the correct lyrics are: they’re in the OP. Everybody’s known them for a full 40 years except for you. Everybody else understands that the real lyrics were intended to have exactly the ambiguity that we’re talking about and it’s that extra bit of wit that makes the song so great. > > Me, I like wit. Jeez. When did I say the song was idiotic? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/43 "2012-12-21T17:22:12Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > You flunked pedanticism. Pedantry. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/44 "2012-12-21T17:39:03Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Pedantry. Pedanticism is the name of the course. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/45 "2012-12-21T18:20:25Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Heh…the thing that amazes me about even the possibility of thinking that is that the song doesn’t sound ANYTHING like the Beatles, in any of their musical periods. Well it does sound a bit like their “For Your Love” or “Happy Together” periods. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/46 "2012-12-21T18:29:06Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > This is not the worst of the Kink’s grammar problems. The quoted lyric in the OP is not a “grammar problem.” It is intentionally ambiguous. That’s the whole point. > [@](#): > > It always burns me up when I hear: > > “The only time I feel alright is by your siiiiiide.” > > That’s not a _time_. That’s a _place_. Either make it “the only \*place \*I feel alright is by your side” or “the only time I feel alright is when I’m by your side.” Other than the fact that there is nothing wrong with a more expansive understanding of the word “time” (as others have mentioned), both your versions also ruin the poetry of the line. “Time” sounds much better with the continuing assonance in that line (time/I//by/side) and “place” sounds, to me, out of place as a substitution. Your second version throws the meter off. It’s just right as is. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/47 "2012-12-22T02:06:04Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > Back in the day, Ray was kinda kryptic when asked about the song. He said it was inspired by two separate incidents. “Probably I wanted the incident to happen and kind of stage-managed it. I put two people through that incident, and I was one of them.” > > ps: _Part One: Lola vs Powerman and the Moneygoround_ is a great, great album. On the Sleepwalker Albumn, I believe in the song Life on the Road, which sure sounds autobiographical and non ambiguous Contains these lines: I was standing with the punks in Praed StreetWhen a muscle man came my wayHe said, "Hey, are you gay? Can you come out and play?"And like a fool, I went and said, “Okay” It’s a great song. Sleepwalker was the album I discovered the Kinks, and I would rank it up there in the running with Lola vs Powerman. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/48 "2012-12-22T02:16:27Z")
Impossible to tell without knowing the punctuation, so unless Victor Borge covered it, we’ll never know. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/49 "2012-12-22T02:48:33Z")
English dopers or maybe just a muswell hillbilly, what does “standing with the punk in Praed Street” mean? ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/50 "2012-12-22T03:37:01Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > English dopers or maybe just a muswell hillbilly, what does “standing with the punk in Praed Street” mean? I’m not English, but Praed Street is a street in London and “standing with the punks” presumably means he was standing near some punks. I don’t know if Praed Street was particularly known as a punk hangout or anything. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/51 "2012-12-22T04:34:44Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > This is not the worst of the Kink’s grammar problems. It always burns me up when I hear: > > “The only time I feel alright is by your siiiiiide.” > > That’s not a _time_. That’s a _place_. Either make it “the only \*place \*I feel alright is by your side” or “the only time I feel alright is when I’m by your side.” Not to pile on, but I like switches like that. A really good one from David Gates: “If I could be two places at one time, I’d be with you Tomorrow and today, beside you all the way.” ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/52 "2012-12-22T19:28:22Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > English dopers or maybe just a muswell hillbilly, what does “standing with the punk in Praed Street” mean? Does “punk” in this usage mean “gay”? At the time of Lola, why would Praed Street have been notable? No WAGs please. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/53 "2012-12-22T22:29:27Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Does “punk” in this usage mean “gay”? At the time of Lola, why would Praed Street have been notable? > > No WAGs please. That line isn’t from “Lola.” It’s from the _Sleepwalker_ album, which was released in 1977, a time lousy with punk punks. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/54 "2012-12-23T04:00:45Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > The Kinks? Huh, learn something new every day. > > Why would the Beatles cover a song from the Kinks? Because they recognize superior musicians when they hear 'em? They _are_ the _Beatles_, after all. They should _know._ ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/55 "2012-12-23T05:21:55Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > That line isn’t from “Lola.” It’s from the _Sleepwalker_ album, which was released in 1977, a time lousy with punk punks. Yes, as I noted it was from Sleepwalker, but as an obvious Kinks aficionado, you would probably agree that the song is autobiographical, no? And if autobiographical, then probably predates 1977 since Ray Davies was born (I think) on 21 June 1945… And would I be correct that you are neither English nor a Muswell Hillbilly nor were around Praed Street in 1970?. Please feel free to correct me if that’s a mistaken assumption on my part. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Charley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/97f17d/32.png) [@Charley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charley)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/56 "2012-12-23T09:37:16Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Does “punk” in this usage mean “gay”? No. Or at least, to be fair, I have never encountered the use of ‘punk’ to mean ‘gay’ in this country. I don’t think this line means anything other than **Lamia** suggests. And I am English. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/57 "2012-12-23T16:04:05Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > Yes, as I noted it was from Sleepwalker… Not in the post I quoted. You asked about “the time of Lola” which was 1970 and years before the punks and years before Sleepwalker. That’s the one and only thing I replied to. I leave the mindreading to others. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/58 "2012-12-23T18:25:20Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > The Beatles did “Lola?” 😕 Sure they did. All four of them, at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![endelbendel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/96bed5/32.png) [@endelbendel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/endelbendel)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-is-lola-a-man/644627/59 "2012-12-24T18:28:11Z")
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