# Grammar Nazis needed; Semicolon question. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 25, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436 "2010-01-25T22:56:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MostlyClueless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@MostlyClueless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyClueless)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/1 "2010-01-25T22:56:41Z")
In this phrase: Stop picking at that, it’ll just get worse. Should the comma be replaced by a semicolon, or is the usage of the comma also acceptable? ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/2 "2010-01-25T23:04:16Z")
Yes, it should be a semicolon. What you have are two independent clauses; you can’t just splice them together with a comma. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/3 "2010-01-25T23:28:12Z")
Disagree, if it’s dialogue. People don’t speak in semicolons. The comma version is much more natural. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/4 "2010-01-25T23:40:00Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Disagree, if it’s dialogue. People don’t speak in semicolons. The comma version is much more natural. huh? ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/5 "2010-01-25T23:41:37Z")
Well, dialogue is a whole different animal, of course. It’s acceptable to bend or break the rules when it serves the flow or style. But in any other case, that’s where you’d need a semicolon. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/6 "2010-01-25T23:44:57Z")
In dialogue, a semicolon sounds just like a comma; that is, it may be indicated by a brief pause, but this is not mandatory. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/7 "2010-01-26T00:05:40Z")
Yes to both halves of your question. A semicolon is _preferable_ but short sentences, particularly in dialogue, are often, and properly, joined with commas. (There’s no real bright line division between what’s permissible and what’s a ‘comma splice’ solecism, but almost any good editor will draw the line between acceptable and not at just about the same point.) **Choie** , semicolon-length pauses do occur in normal speech patterns, though typical speech patterns tend to seldom use related-but-distinct clauses in colloquial usage. “I got my first real six-string; bought it at the five-and-dime.” Bryan Adams strikes me as having a good sense of colloquial speech. A period would IMO be too much of a disconnect for how the song’s natural flow joins the clauses, though it certainly would not be incorrect. But the natural sense of how the two song lines flow in speech seems to call for a semicolon. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/8 "2010-01-26T00:06:51Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Disagree, if it’s dialogue. People don’t speak in semicolons. The comma version is much more natural. I was told once by an English professor in college that she could actually hear the semicolons punctuating my sentences when I spoke. FWIW, a different English professor (who had had exposure to my writing before he actually met me) said, upon our first actual conversation, “I thought your writing was stilted and artificial, but Jesus, you really talk like that.” So there. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/9 "2010-01-26T06:09:50Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > A semicolon is _preferable_ but short sentences, particularly in dialogue, are often, and properly, joined with commas. Do you have a cite on that? I’ve never heard anything but a bright-line rule on this topic. In casual writing, such as a letter to a friend, I’d let it slide, but when the OP summons grammar Nazis I think we’re looking for an approach strict enough to please the most rigorous stickler. _The Chicago Manual of Style_, 14th ed., § 5.89: “[A semicolon] should always be used between the two parts of a compound sentence (independent, or coordinate, clauses) when they are not connected by a conjunction.” There’s no leeway there, just an “always.” That’s how I learned 'em; that’s how I write 'em. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/10 "2010-01-26T06:16:34Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > FWIW, a different English professor (who had had exposure to my writing before he actually met me) said, upon our first actual conversation, “I thought your writing was stilted and artificial, but Jesus, you really talk like that.” That’s awful, but very funny. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/11 "2010-01-26T06:22:55Z")
> [@jackelope](#): > > Do you have a cite on that? I’ve never heard anything but a bright-line rule on this topic. In casual writing, such as a letter to a friend, I’d let it slide, but when the OP summons grammar Nazis I think we’re looking for an approach strict enough to please the most rigorous **stickler**. You called? I learned that if you have two independent clauses, then you must use a semicolon. Joining sentences with a comma but not a conjunction is always a comma splice. But if there’s an authority that says otherwise, I’d be most interested in reading what they have to say. A cursory googling didn’t turn up anything. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/12 "2010-01-26T06:35:35Z")
> [@jackelope](#): > > There’s no leeway there, just an “always.” Gaudere’s Law strikes. I probably should have used something stronger than a comma, such as an em dash. Drat. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/13 "2010-01-26T07:57:38Z")
personally i would use a period. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/14 "2010-01-26T08:52:17Z")
> [@bardos](#): > > personally i would use a period. That’s a different version of the statement, though. A period would provide a marked pause, while the comma implies they are almost run together. As for the comma thing: I wish I had my old English book which said it was okay for certain sentences. One example was “I think, therefore I am” rather than “I think; therefore, I am.” ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/15 "2010-01-26T09:32:07Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > That’s a different version of the statement, though. A period would provide a marked pause, while the comma implies they are almost run together. > > As for the comma thing: I wish I had my old English book which said it was okay for certain sentences. **One example was “I think, therefore I am” rather than “I think; therefore, I am.”** Aren’t you referring to the rule mentioned most recently by **Inner Stickler**? Isn’t ‘therefore’ being used as a conjunction? > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > I learned that if you have two independent clauses, then you must use a semicolon. Joining sentences with a comma but not a conjunction is always a comma splice. ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/16 "2010-01-26T11:51:48Z")
^ i agree. “therefore” is a conjunction. if a comma is acceptable for joining two independent clauses with no conjunction then you would be able to write “I think, I am.” rather than “I think; I am.” As per the OP, a comma is wrong imo. A semicolon or even a hyphen would be what you were looking for. I have never heard of different rules governing dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/17 "2010-01-26T13:29:32Z")
> [@jackelope](#): > > Do you have a cite on that? I’ve never heard anything but a bright-line rule on this topic. In casual writing, such as a letter to a friend, I’d let it slide, but when the OP summons grammar Nazis I think we’re looking for an approach strict enough to please the most rigorous stickler. > > _The Chicago Manual of Style_, 14th ed., § 5.89: “[A semicolon] should always be used between the two parts of a compound sentence (independent, or coordinate, clauses) when they are not connected by a conjunction.” > > There’s no leeway there, just an “always.” That’s how I learned 'em; that’s how I write 'em. It’s not called the _Chicago Manual of Incontrovertible Rules That Must Apply to Everything in All Situations_. This is a matter of style, and is a judgment call. Organizations use style guides to create a consistent quality to writing to help present a single face to readership. Novelists and playwrights aren’t bound by such things. If a comma would most effectively communicate to a reader the style of speech, then a comma is the best way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/18 "2010-01-26T17:43:47Z")
> [@jackelope](#): > > Do you have a cite on that? I’ve never heard anything but a bright-line rule on this topic. In casual writing, such as a letter to a friend, I’d let it slide, but when the OP summons grammar Nazis I think we’re looking for an approach strict enough to please the most rigorous stickler. > > _The Chicago Manual of Style_, 14th ed., § 5.89: “[A semicolon] should always be used between the two parts of a compound sentence (independent, or coordinate, clauses) when they are not connected by a conjunction.” > > There’s no leeway there, just an “always.” That’s how I learned 'em; that’s how I write 'em. Tina Blue is hardly an authority, but [here](http://grammartips.homestead.com/spliceok.html) she gives a delightfully simple and well-argued explanation of when a comma splice is acceptable, quoting Barbara Wallraff, who is considered something of an authority. (I couldn’t find an online direct cite of Wallraff, as opposed to people like Blue quoting her.) The [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma_splice) on comma splices likewise quotes Strunk and White and also Fowler as to their acceptability in joining short clauses. And, as Blue notes, “You wouldn’t have a problem with the comma in this sentence, would you?” I have never seen an editor or copyeditor insist on a semicolon in such usages, but by the absolute rule’s terms “would you” is an independent clause that should require a semicolon to set it off. ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/19 "2010-01-26T18:00:30Z")
How to use a semicolon. Brought to you by [the oatmeal](http://theoatmeal.com/comics/semicolon). Enjoy 😃 ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436/20 "2010-01-26T18:24:36Z")
Wouldn’t a colon work? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-nazis-needed-semicolon-question/526436.md?page=2)