# Grammar question about articles and the places we go **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 10, 2012, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601 "2012-11-10T18:50:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/41 "2012-11-12T00:22:44Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > But adverts for products etc will say “in store now”. Ad-speak is like headlinese. For the sake of pithiness the writers often write sentence fragments, omitting subjects, articles and forms of the verb “to be.” When a big chain like Walmart says “in store now” in an ad, they really mean “It’s in our stores now.” To keep it short they leave out the “It’s” and the “our,” but they don’t want to say, “in stores now” because that would suggest it was in other companies’ stores as well as theirs. They don’t want to say, “in the store now” because it uses one more word, and because they are talking about more than one store. So they say, “in store now,” and the reader is presumed to understand that it means the item in question is in all Walmart stores. BTW, you do see “in stores now” in product ads. “Get your bloviator today! In stores now!” ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/42 "2012-11-12T00:28:17Z")
> [@LynnM](#): > > Were English a top-down designed language, like the C programming language or the Unix operating system, I could understand the OP’s confusion about inconsistencies. Note, FWIW, that even as we have been writing this thread, OP has [another current thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=671983) in which he investigates the vagaries of Unix shell scripting! The potential for cross-confusion is omni-present! :eek: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/43 "2012-11-12T00:42:40Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Utter nonsense. The fact that British English and American English varies on this should make this obvious. Ah, but this explains a lot! Because we Merkins say “the” in all those places clearly shows that we are not nearly as evolved as our podners across the Pond who, after all, have been evolving for a lot longer! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/44 "2012-11-12T01:41:27Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Not in my dialect. I can’t imagine saying to someone, “He’s gone to the store” unless what store he’s gone to has been established. I would say, “He’s gone shopping.” The only case where I can imagine saying “I’m going to the library” without previous context would be at work, where the library for my agency is just downstairs and perhaps my coworker would know of it, so perhaps there would be a context. I just pulled a random quote from the Internet. From a slice of a short story: > [@](#): > > Anyway, if a stranger calls and asks if a Mr. Alan Cohen is there, I’ll say no. Maybe I’ll even say that he’s gone to the store; that maybe they can try back later. He might be home then. It’ll be the lie I tell us both. This is quite a common usage in literature. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/45 "2012-11-12T02:25:32Z")
How about we all just agree to drop the article completely whenever we are going to a well-known type of place where typically only one type of activity is done there or one type of service is rendered. Tomorrow I’ll be at store buying groceries for the family. My brother went to library to check out a book about grammar. On the weekend we’ll go to beach and soak up some rays. Who’s in it with me? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/46 "2012-11-12T02:41:03Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > How about we all just agree to drop the article completely whenever we are going to a well-known type of place where typically only one type of activity is done there or one type of service is rendered. > > Tomorrow I’ll be at store buying groceries for the family. > My brother went to library to check out a book about grammar. > On the weekend we’ll go to beach and soak up some rays. > > Who’s in it with me? Y dont u try for simplified speling 2? It’s just as logical and has more chance in the age of texting. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/47 "2012-11-12T03:06:08Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Nope. Places such store, and library take “the” even if both parties have not established which one they are talking about. > > For example, my mother can call from the States and ask if I’m in. My wife can say “He’s gone to the store.” which is common and correct, even though my mother will not know which store I’m at. Yeah, in my American dialect, your sentence is fine (although mine would more likely say “he went to the store,”) even without previous context. I find it surprising that some dialects consider the usage unacceptable without establishing what store someone went to, but that’s what makes dialects and language so interesting. ---
**Author:** ![newme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e0b2c6/32.png) [@newme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newme)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/48 "2012-11-12T03:08:01Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > How about we all just agree to drop the article completely whenever we are going to a well-known type of place where typically only one type of activity is done there or one type of service is rendered. > > Tomorrow I’ll be at store buying groceries for the family. > My brother went to library to check out a book about grammar. > On the weekend we’ll go to beach and soak up some rays. > > Who’s in it with me? This is something I noticed watching _Last of the Summer Wine_. Move to Yorkshire and you’ll fit right in ([Wikipedia Link on Zero-Marking](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-marking_in_English#Zero_article)): > [@](#): > > In some nonstandard forms of [British English](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_English), _the_ is omitted in places that standard English has it, leading to sentences such as: > > [ul] > [li]_I’m going to shop._ (I’m going to the shop)[/li][li]_I’m driving down road._ (I’m driving down the road)[/li][/ul] > It’s possible to discern, for example, in Lancashire and Yorkshire English accents a minuscule pause in place of the definite article. ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/49 "2012-11-12T06:11:36Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Again, you’re asking for language to be logical. It’s not. How could anything be further from the truth? How could language be anything _but_ logical? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/50 "2012-11-12T06:42:50Z")
Why do you think language is logical? ---
**Author:** ![SayTwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e56c9b/32.png) [@SayTwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SayTwo)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/51 "2012-11-12T07:56:42Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Why do you think language is logical? Because, by definition, it cannot be anything but that. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/52 "2012-11-12T08:02:40Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Does Russian omit definite as well as indefinite articles? Or does Russian omit only the indefinite article? No articles in Russian period. Unless you count “blya”, but it is used haphazardly and inconsistently 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/53 "2012-11-12T08:07:47Z")
This is why non-native speakers always have problems with articles in English (or is it “with the articles”?), especially those that come from languages that have no articles. Took me a couple of years before I started using “correct” (that is, widely accepted usage) definite and indefinite articles in English, and it was basically by intuition, with a few “established” rules. ---
**Author:** ![Nom\_de\_Plume](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85f322/32.png) [@Nom\_de\_Plume](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nom_de_Plume)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/54 "2012-11-12T12:53:01Z")
In my usage, there is a difference between going to “the store” or “the mall” and going to “a store” or " a mall." If I use “the,” I would be referring to a routine shopping trip. It would not necessarily be my regular store or mall. The point, however, would be that the particular store or mall is not important to the context of the story. If, however, I said “a store” or "a mall,"the particular mall or store would be relevant to the story, though I’m not saying or don’t know the name of the store or mall. For instance, “I went to the mall to buy shoes” means I went to any mall; the specific mall is not important. However, “I went to a mall in San Antonio that was right across the street from The Alamo” only refers to a particular mall, despite the use of the indefinite article. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/55 "2012-11-12T15:52:55Z")
> [@newme](#): > > This is something I noticed watching _Last of the Summer Wine_. Move to Yorkshire and you’ll fit right in ([Wikipedia Link on Zero-Marking](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-marking_in_English#Zero_article)): > > > [@](#): > > > > In some nonstandard forms of British English, the is omitted in places that standard English has it, leading to sentences such as: > > I’m going to shop. (I’m going to the shop) > > I’m driving down road. (I’m driving down the road) > > It’s possible to discern, for example, in Lancashire and Yorkshire English accents a minuscule pause in place of the definite article. You usually see that written as, e.g. “I’m going to t’ shop” as a shorthand for Yorkshire-speak. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/56 "2012-11-12T15:54:20Z")
SayTwo, find me a definition of language that shows that it is logical. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/57 "2012-11-12T16:21:43Z")
> [@SayTwo](#): > > How could anything be further from the truth? How could language be anything _but_ logical? I’ve read that the verb “to be” - which is the oldest and most basic verb in any vocabulary - is irregular in every language. Every language is built from usage. Usage is not logical. Q.E.D. There are longer arguments. Pretty much every book on linguistics is a longer argument about how some aspects of language are logical and the rest are anything but. I highly recommend Guy Deutscher’s [The Unfolding of Language: An Evolutionary Tour of Mankind’s Greatest Invention](http://www.amazon.com/The-Unfolding-Language-Evolutionary-Invention/dp/0805080120/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1352737195&sr=8-2&keywords=guy+deutscher). It’s written for a popular audience but still has great depth. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/58 "2012-11-12T16:49:41Z")
I’m glad you asked this – it’s something I’ve long wondered about. How about that class of nouns for which we never use markings? Or at least, using a marking changes the meaning of the noun: ``` Joan is at work. ``` We’d never say that Joan was at the work. But we may specify the type of place where Joan works: Joan is at the office, Joan is at the shop, Joan is at the factory, Joan is at the school. In none of those sentences would we drop the article or replace it with the nondefinite article. If we say Joan is at an office, it is implied and understood to mean that Joan is not at work. Or at least mostly – if Joan’s work takes her to other people’s offices, we’re more likely to say that Joan is at a customer’s office than simply at an office. ``` John is at home ``` means something very different from John is at the home. I’d say that the first use means that John is located where he lives, whereas the second means he’s at an institution (such as a nursing home) where he doesn’t live. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/59 "2012-11-12T17:25:23Z")
Furthermore, in some languages there is no word for “to be”. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2012, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601/60 "2012-11-12T21:14:09Z")
> [@Nom\_de\_Plume](#): > > For instance, “I went to the mall to buy shoes” means I went to any mall; the specific mall is not important. However, “I went to a mall in San Antonio that was right across the street from The Alamo” only refers to a particular mall, despite the use of the indefinite article. But if you had said “the mall” instead of “a mall” there, how would the meaning have changed at all? Are you implying that, “I went to a mall to buy shoes” means that you went to a PARTICULAR mall? I don’t agree whatsoever. “I went to a mall to buy shoes” = “I went to the mall to buy shoes” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-about-articles-and-the-places-we-go/640601.md?page=4)