# Grammar question: But, And

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-but-and/235180>\
**Category:** Factual Questions\
**Created:** [March 19, 2004, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-but-and/235180 "2004-03-19T11:21:34Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Bromley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@Bromley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bromley)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-but-and/235180/21 "2004-03-20T12:13:35Z")

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> [@pulykamell](#):
>
> The comma technically does belong there. You should have a comma before any conjunction that is followed by an independent clause. However, an exception is sometimes made if the clause is very short. For example, most people will accept “John sings and he plays guitar.” But it should be: “John sings, and he plays guitar.” If the clause is dependent, then the comma need be omitted.  
> E.g. John sings and plays guitar _not_ John sings, and plays guitar.

Bloody English teacher! Not only did he tell me (15 years ago now) to never comma before an “and”, but he’s also responsible for my comma fetish 🙂 .

So, if I understand you correctly, the dependency test basically requires that I be able to delete everything up to and including the “and” and still have a sentence that scans? If I do, then I can comma. If not, not.

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**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2004, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-but-and/235180/22 "2004-03-20T18:21:36Z")

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> [@Bromley](#):
>
> Bloody English teacher! Not only did he tell me (15 years ago now) to never comma before an “and”, but he’s also responsible for my comma fetish 🙂 .
> 
> So, if I understand you correctly, the dependency test basically requires that I be able to delete everything up to and including the “and” and still have a sentence that scans? If I do, then I can comma. If not, not.

If what follows “and” is a stand-alone sentence in its own right (i.e. an independent clause) then the comma is necessitated. If what follows “and” cannot stand alone (i.e. the verb is dependent on the subject of the clause preceding “and”), then no comma.

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