# Grammar Question: Commas and lists. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 18, 2000, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844 "2000-08-18T14:05:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/1 "2000-08-18T14:05:19Z")
Which of the following examples is preferred stylistically? 1. I went to the store and bought a potato, an onion, a carrot, and an apple. 2. I went to the store and bought a potato, an onion, a carrot and an apple. My instinct is to go with #1 but I have a hunch that most style guides would disagree. Thanks in advance! ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/2 "2000-08-18T14:07:48Z")
The style books I recall say that both are correct, and don’t give a preference. I, too, prefer to place a comma before the “and”. I can’t recall what Strunk and White or the Chicago Manual say. Based on my past experience, they’ll say that it’s better NOT to use the last comma, if only to make me look bad. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/3 "2000-08-18T14:19:27Z")
I think Cal is correct – both are considered acceptable. OTOH, I always put a comma before the “and.” ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/4 "2000-08-18T14:23:27Z")
I believe either way is correct. I always use a comma before “and” to avoid any ambiguities or misinterpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/5 "2000-08-18T14:40:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by missbunny \* > \*\*I believe either way is correct. I always use a comma before “and” to avoid any ambiguities or misinterpretation. \*\* Let me chime in here wearing my freelance-copyeditor hat. The serial-comma question is the one I’m most frequently asked when I tell people what I do. The answers here are all correct – it’s a matter of choice and most of the time either is correct – but **missbunny** makes an important point: the serial comma removes any chance of ambiguity. A popular illustration of this is the alleged book dedication **“To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.”** Use of the serial comma here would have made it clear that the writer is not a half-deity. And FWIW, the only style guide I know of that specifically omits the serial comma is AP (Associated Press), and that’s only because it’s newspaper style, which prefers conciseness. (Yeah, like a comma takes up so much space.) Chicago prescribes the serial comma. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/6 "2000-08-18T14:44:19Z")
Thanks to all for great (and damn quick) responses. I wish I could buy you all a cigar, a good steak, a glass of Perrier, and a beer. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/7 "2000-08-18T14:46:16Z")
Strunk says use the comma. Yeah! The copyediting-l faq says 47 votes for always, 15 votes for it depends. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/8 "2000-08-18T14:49:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by stolichnaya \* > \*\*Thanks to all for great (and damn quick) responses. > > I wish I could buy you all a cigar, a good steak, a glass of Perrier, and a beer. \*\* Given your name, I thought it would be vodka, not beer. (I prefer Crystal.) ---
**Author:** ![Steve-o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecc23a/32.png) [@Steve-o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve-o)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/9 "2000-08-18T14:53:21Z")
Imagine the court fights that could result from: My estate should be divided equally among James, Sue, Sarah, Josh and Bill. Is that 4 divisions or 5? I suppose it would depend on who you were. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/10 "2000-08-18T14:56:37Z")
Crystal _is_ very very good with a twist of lime. Despite my name, I actually prefer scotch. My SN comes from a phonetically assigned nickname. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/11 "2000-08-18T15:03:37Z")
> [@](#): > > A popular illustration of this is the alleged book dedication “To my parents, Ayn Rand and God.” Use of the serial comma here would have made it clear that the writer is not a half-deity. Only half? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c67d28/32.png) [@G.B.H.Hornswoggler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.B.H.Hornswoggler)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/12 "2000-08-18T15:33:10Z")
It’s very much a style question, so, if you’re writing for publication, you’ll want to know the preference of your editor or the house style. If it’s just for yourself, it’s up to your personal preference. I tend to omit the serial comma myself, on the grounds that a comma, in a list, is acting as an abbreviation for the word “and.” At the end of the list, there already is an “and,” thus a comma is superfluous. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/13 "2000-08-18T16:40:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Da Ace \* > I tend to omit the serial comma myself, on the grounds that a comma, in a list, is acting as an abbreviation for the word “and.” At the end of the list, there already is an “and,” thus a comma is superfluous. Blasphemy! The final comma is necessary because a comma denotes a slight pause in speech, and when speaking the items of a list, you most certainly make a slight pause before the “and.” Bonus question: Tell a story in which you use the word “and” five times in a row and it makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![TNTruth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@TNTruth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TNTruth)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/14 "2000-08-18T18:35:17Z")
Irate tavern owner to sign painter: You didn’t put enough space between beef and and, and and and bottle. I hope that’s enough commas. ---
**Author:** ![Steve-o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecc23a/32.png) [@Steve-o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve-o)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/15 "2000-08-18T18:38:24Z")
Pointing to a sign over a tavern that read “Bear and Fox Tavern”, James said to Sam, “That sign is hard to read. There should be more space between “Bear” and “and”, and “and” and Fox.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Steve-o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecc23a/32.png) [@Steve-o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve-o)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/16 "2000-08-18T18:39:53Z")
Dang… way late to that punch. Need to learn to type faster. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/17 "2000-08-18T18:46:27Z")
OK! Punctuation Puzzles. Properly punctuate THIS! “John where James had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher.” ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/18 "2000-08-18T18:52:20Z")
John, where James had had “had,” had had “had had”; “had had” had had a better effect on the teacher. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/19 "2000-08-18T19:05:33Z")
OK, how about this? Is it I went to Toledo, Ohio; Madison, Wisconsin; and New York, New York. or I went to Toledo, Ohio; Madison, Wisconsin and New York, New York. or is it the same answer as above? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2000, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844/20 "2000-08-18T19:29:10Z")
Missbunny is Right! You folks amaze me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-commas-and-lists/29844.md?page=2)