# Grammar question - Funny nouns **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 4, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349 "2002-12-04T03:27:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/1 "2002-12-04T03:27:17Z")
What is the name for nouns that aren’t really plurals but can’t normally be pluralized? For example, you can’t speak of “five waters,” you have to talk about it in measurements, such as “five liters of water.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/2 "2002-12-04T03:31:54Z")
I think I know what you’re talking about, but what if you were talking about five different kinds of water? ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/3 "2002-12-04T03:41:19Z")
I believe you are talking about **mass nouns** (as opposed to **count nouns** ): [Mass and Count Nouns](http://www.english.uiuc.edu/cws/wworkshop/grammar/massandcountnouns.htm) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/4 "2002-12-04T03:42:40Z")
Then you would have to say “five different kinds of water.” The only context I’ve heard thus far where it really makes sense is if you’re referring to a bottle of water as “a water,” and say “gimme five waters.” But still, that seems a bit anomolous to me. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/5 "2002-12-04T03:44:36Z")
Wahoo! You’re my personal hero for at least the next 24 hours, **Scarlett67**. 😃 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/6 "2002-12-04T03:47:14Z")
Just send **two pounds of chocolate** to Tara and we’re square. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/7 "2002-12-04T11:09:27Z")
I walk into McDonald’s (note, not in _real_ life): “I’d like five, medium waters, please.” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/8 "2002-12-04T12:07:27Z")
Two beers please. ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/9 "2002-12-04T12:40:21Z")
[New Insoles Combine Five Forms of Pseudoscience](http://www.theonion.com/onion3512/new_insoles.html) okay that’s probably enough of that. ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/10 "2002-12-04T12:52:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mangetout \* > \*\*Two beers please. \*\* In my local pub thats known as: **"A pair of Britneys"** 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/11 "2002-12-04T13:34:15Z")
Jokes aside, Scarlett67 is correct. Mass and count nouns are the two kinds and their grammar (whether and what kinds of articles and other “determiners” are allowed is rather different. That said, all–or nearly all–mass nouns are at least occasionally used as count nouns. Pease was once a mass noun and was redefined (and respelled) as a count noun. Rice is a mass noun, but who knows, maybe in two centuries, it will be a plural of a count noun rouse :). That joke appears in Steven Pinker’s Words and Rules, but he didn’t invent it. A colleague of mine who once taught Pinker a course in mathematical linguistics did. Determiners are article-like words that modify nouns but are not considered adjectives. Such as “this”, “that”, “these”, “those”, all possesive pronouns (which are not really pronouns since they are not standing in place of a noun) and the articles.😃 😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/12 "2002-12-04T16:28:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by garius \* > \*\*In my local pub thats known as: > > **"A pair of Britneys"** > > 🙂 \*\* A pair of Britneys? I don’t get it. :o RR ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/13 "2002-12-04T16:35:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RiverRunner \* > \*\*A pair of Britneys? I don’t get it. > :o > > RR \*\* [hint] Think rhyming slang! 😃 [/hint] ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/14 "2002-12-04T16:40:19Z")
Dukey: What kind of idiot do you think I am? Toadey: I don’t know; how many kinds are there? Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/15 "2002-12-04T17:06:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by friedo \* > \*\*Then you would have to say “five different kinds of water.” > > The only context I’ve heard thus far where it really makes sense is if you’re referring to a bottle of water as “a water,” and say “gimme five waters.” But still, that seems a bit anomolous to me. \*\* How about in the context of an expression like “the waters of the Missouri”? And I’m willing to bet that some Consumer Reports type publication comparing various brands of bottled water might say something like “Of all the waters we tested, our panel thought Sumppump Springs tasted the best.”. Agreed that “mass nouns” are what the OP is after, but there are circumstances where one might reasonably say “waters”. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/16 "2002-12-04T17:27:26Z")
Great thread, boys and girls. Thank you Scarlett. Thanks, Attryant. Kudos to all. Even me. xo Also, I’m also dense as to the two beers thing, although I saw some humor in reducing Britney to an object of enjoyement. rhyming? ? ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/17 "2002-12-04T17:30:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yabob \* > \*\*How about in the context of an expression like “the waters of the Missouri”? And I’m willing to bet that some Consumer Reports type publication comparing various brands of bottled water might say something like “Of all the waters we tested, our panel thought Sumppump Springs tasted the best.”. > > Agreed that “mass nouns” are what the OP is after, but there are circumstances where one might reasonably say “waters”. \*\* Absolutely. M-W’s 3rd Unabridged gives “waters” its own definition under “water” to apply in cases such as “the waters of the Missouri.” As for “the waters we tested” or “four waters for Table 7,” I think what we have here is an idiom or ellipsis; what is really being said is “brands of water” or “bottles of water.” I’m not sure I’d allow it in the most formal writing, but it’s fine for speech and informal writing, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/18 "2002-12-04T17:46:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CC \* > Also, I’m also dense as to the two beers thing, although I saw some humor in reducing Britney to an object of enjoyement. rhyming? ? [quick introduction to Cockney Rhyming Slang] 1. Take a word that you want to convert, e.g. **wife**. 2. Find a word that rhymes with it, e.g. **strife**. 3. Combine the word chosen in 2) above with something to make an expression, e.g. **struggle and strife** 4. Take away the aforementioned rhyming word and you are left with **struggle**. Thus struggle = wife. The problem of converting **beers** into **Britneys** will be your home assignment. [/quick introduction to Cockney Rhyming Slang] ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/19 "2002-12-04T18:14:20Z")
Well, I can go from beers to spears to Brittney Spears to 2 beers = 2 Brittneys. If that’s right, I didn’t miss any humor. It wasn’t designed to have any. Just interest. thanks again. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2002, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349/20 "2002-12-04T19:26:38Z")
In re: the OP: my high school senior English teacher called them “collective nouns.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-funny-nouns/140349.md?page=2)