# Grammar question -- multiple possessives **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 17, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051 "2003-07-17T03:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/21 "2003-07-17T14:05:30Z")
_“Paging Mr. Sarsaparilla, Mr. Rufus Xavier Sarsaparilla, line one, white courtesy phone.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/22 "2003-07-17T14:13:36Z")
Christ, we’ll post it again until somebody reads it… From EnderX’s post: "When one of the possessors in a compound possessive is a **personal pronoun** , we have to put **both** possessors in the possessive form or we end up with something silly: “Bill and my car had to be towed last night.” ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/23 "2003-07-17T14:15:48Z")
It is not enough to be grammatically correct: the best option is a form with balances lack of ambiguity with brevity. If expressing ownership is important then it should be expressed as explicitly as possible; if you don’t mind if people believe you and your sister might own them separately, or if you can trust them to already know you have cats in common, it becomes simpler. I am not sure that “me and my sister’s cats” would be unambiguously interpreted as meaning that the cat is shared, and “my sister’s and my cats” (if correct) is ambiguous, as is “the cats of me and my sister”. If it is important to establish co-ownership, then say something like: “The cats me and my sister share” “The cats shared by me and my sister” If ownership isn’t important, it becomes far simpler, and you can use already-mentioned forms: e.g. “the cats of my sister and me”, which is grammatical but ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/24 "2003-07-17T14:18:40Z")
Duh! “The cats my sister and I share” or “The cats shared by my sister and I”. There’s an unbendable natural law about grammatical posts. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/25 "2003-07-17T14:36:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by refusal \* > \*\*Duh! “The cats my sister and I share” or “The cats shared by my sister and I”. There’s an unbendable natural law about grammatical posts. \*\* The first example is correct nominative case; the second example needs objective case since the pronoun is part of the object of the preposition. Thus, “The cats shared by my sister and me.” Ex-English teacher here. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/26 "2003-07-17T14:48:28Z")
> [@](#): > > “The cats me and my sister share” > “The cats shared by me and my sister” I’m with you on the second, but should the first one not be “The cats _I_ and my sister share” (or, even better, “The cats my sister and I share”)? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/27 "2003-07-17T15:05:45Z")
Now why did my post take _that_ long to appear? ---
**Author:** ![Achernar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e274bd/32.png) [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/28 "2003-07-17T16:29:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nametag \* > Christ, we’ll post it again until somebody reads it… > > From EnderX’s post: "When one of the possessors in a compound possessive is a **personal pronoun** , we have to put **both** possessors in the possessive form or we end up with something silly: “Bill and my car had to be towed last night.” You’re absolutely right; sorry I missed it. The correct form is “Bill’s and my car…” ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/29 "2003-07-17T17:49:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*Why is it incorrect? There are multiple cats who “possess” multiple sisters. The cats’ sisters were good pets. > > \*\* Well no, because in my example “sisters” is supposed to refer to my sister and I (humans). 🙂 Julie ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/30 "2003-07-17T18:01:54Z")
Ah, but cats believe that their owners are their pets… ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/31 "2003-07-17T19:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Don’t add an apostrophe to form the possessive of my. And I’s is also incorrect. The apostrophe is being added to the entire noun phrase. “My” is only modifying “sister.” { [My sister] and me } 's cats **curly chick** , **jjimm** , **rk** , I am not joking and I’m perfectly correct. I do notice however that I’m in Texas and you’re over in England and Ireland. While the alternates you present sound fine to me in a grammatical sense, I just wouldn’t ever say it that way. It sounds stilted or officious to me. The phrasing I offered is the most natural-sounding choice to my ears. Sticking the possessive at the end of a noun phrase isn’t remarkable in any way, we do it all the time: “The man with the red car’s shopping cart is broken” or even “The girl who came with me’s car is over there.” The only other consideration is which pronoun to use, “me” or “I.” In English we use the oblique form with conjunctions, so it’s “me.” I prefer “my sister and me’s cats” to “me and my sister’s cats” because the latter is potentially ambiguous. -fh ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/32 "2003-07-17T22:51:44Z")
“Me’s” isn’t a word, **hazel-rah**. The first-person possessive is “mine.” ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/33 "2003-07-17T23:24:33Z")
I see **hazel-rah** ’s point (adding the apostrophe-s to the end of what is essentially a descriptive phrase (“the man with the red car” or “the girl who came with me”)). But while this is generally understandable in colloquial spoken English, it’s not technically grammatically correct, and it’s kind of messy when written down. It’s one of those things your English teacher would label “Awkward - rephrase”. That being said, “and me” is not a descriptive phrase belonging to “my sister”, so even the colloquial rule doesn’t apply. The double possessive is required to avoid ambiguity. Note: **Me and my sister’s cat** : refers to me and the cat, not just the cat. **My sister and my cat** : same problem. **My sister’s and my cat** : the phrase “and my” temporarily defers the object of the possessive “my sister’s”, in the same way you might refer to “medium- and long-term plans”; the word “term”, like the word “cat”, is implied in the first case. Wow, am I a pedant. ---
**Author:** ![Jpeg\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@Jpeg\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jpeg_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/34 "2003-07-17T23:43:36Z")
> [@](#): > > My sister’s and my cat Given the unfortunate modern usage of apostrophes denoting plural, you’re still going to cause some confusion among the subliterate who think you’re talking about your multiple sisters and your cat. Damned if you do and damned if you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/35 "2003-07-17T23:56:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dantheman \* > \*\*“Me’s” isn’t a word, **hazel-rah**. The first-person possessive is “mine.” \*\* Whoops, I meant “my.” “Me’s” is no more a word than “I’s” is. That is to say, it ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/36 "2003-07-18T00:15:18Z")
The OP asked if it was possible to **say** this correctly, not write it correctly. In American English “my sister and me’s cat” is correct. Technically, grammatically, any way you want to slice it. It is correct. > [@](#): > > That being said, “and me” is not a descriptive phrase belonging to “my sister”, so even the colloquial rule doesn’t apply. The double possessive is required to avoid ambiguity. I don’t know what you mean by colloquial rule. Or, for that matter, descriptive phrase. Could you clarify? **dantheman** , I know what the first-person possessive is. Try and pay attention: the possessive _'s_ in “my sister and me’s cat” is modifying _the entire noun phrase_. -fh ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/37 "2003-07-18T00:23:44Z")
**hazel-rah** - “me’s” is _not a word_. Please stop saying it is. You cannot, in the rules of English, add an apostrophe-s to the word “me.” To state otherwise is to propagate a falsehood. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/38 "2003-07-18T00:25:37Z")
And an apostrophe-s doesn’t “modify” anything. It changes a regular noun into a possessive noun. It’s not an adjective or adverb, words that **do** modify other words. Finally, you can’t add apostrophe-s to an entire phrase. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/39 "2003-07-18T00:30:02Z")
**hazel** ’s answer seems right to me. I know where the objectors are coming from: it looks wrong to see the form “me’s” in writing, but no good alternative presents itself. **dantheman** ’s style book recommends a form which it admits is inconsistent, but has the advantage of not sounding “silly”. However, this is at the cost of ambiguity. If we can in general distinguish between shared and separate ownership relations by using the possessive form of one or both of the owners, then it seems wrong-headed to lose that distinction in this case. ---
**Author:** ![dantheman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dantheman/32/9421_2.png) [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051/40 "2003-07-18T00:36:11Z")
Huh? How could it possibly be correct? There’s no such word. What was inconsistent about the answer I gave? It’s completely accurate without being awkward. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-multiple-possessives/189051.md?page=3)