# Grammar Question - Possessive Case **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 20, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-possessive-case/705125 "2014-11-20T03:48:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jebert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ec9cab/32.png) [@jebert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jebert)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-possessive-case/705125/1 "2014-11-20T03:48:57Z")
Possessive case - apostrophe s. Yeah, that. Very simple. n most cases. But what about forming the possessive of “attorney general”? I’m assuming all dopers know that the plural is “attorneys general”, so is the possessive “attorney’s general” or “attorney general’s”? The former sounds very strange, but the latter seems to be out of line with the reason for forming the plural the way we do, And then what is the correct form for the plural possessive? Lots of possibilities there. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-possessive-case/705125/2 "2014-11-20T03:55:32Z")
That adjective-second practice comes from French, which doesn’t have Germanic-style possessive cases like English does. So maybe you could just do it the French way. Someone vandalized the car of the attorney general. The plan of the attorney general to reduce crime in the community by aggressively prosecuting jaywalkers is idiotic. As an aside, it’s acceptable in APA academic writing to put an in-text citation after a possessive. So you can say what Johnson (1995) had to say, or you can write about Johnson’s (1995) super-awesome thesis about just about everything that’s relevant in the science of important stuff. One doesn’t write “Johnson (1995)'s”. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-possessive-case/705125/3 "2014-11-20T03:57:32Z")
Singular possessive: the attorney general’s office. For the plural possessive, it’s probably best to rewrite: the offices of the attorneys general. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-possessive-case/705125/4 "2014-11-20T04:00:43Z")
Don’t ask me why, but the possessive applies to the entire construction that makes up the name of the object. “The man who was hit by the train’s hat ws still on the tracks.” Wrong to say “The man’s who was hit by the train hat . . .” Even if it ends with a dreaded prepositon: “The man I talked to’s explanation was good enough.” Probably not a good idea to write formally like that, but it is fine in conversation. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-possessive-case/705125/5 "2014-11-20T04:18:55Z")
Other examples of the post-positive in English: code red pound sterling agent provocateur femme fatale sergeant major notary public malice aforethought battle royale poet laureate fee simple heir apparent time immemorial God almighty knight errant professor emeritus life everlasting devil incarnate queen regnant airman basic and of course, the famous [Whopper Junior](http://www.theonion.com/articles/william-safire-orders-two-whoppers-junior,3351/). The queen regnant, three notaries public, and the devil incarnate decided to play knights errant and have a battle royale with a dozen sergeants major. The professors emeritus of Podunk U came as agents provocateur. Many airmen basic bet up to a hundred pounds sterling each hoping that the knights errant would win, displaying all of the malices aforethought that have existed since time immemorial and be written of by poets laureate unto life everlasting. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-possessive-case/705125/6 "2014-11-20T04:57:10Z")
How many Sevens-Up would be needed to serve them all? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-possessive-case/705125/7 "2014-11-20T04:59:15Z")
> [@jebert](#): > > Possessive case - apostrophe s. Yeah, that. Very simple. > > n most cases. > > But what about forming the possessive of “attorney general”? I’m assuming all dopers know that the plural is “attorneys general”, so is the possessive “attorney’s general” or “attorney general’s”? The former sounds very strange, but the latter seems to be out of line with the reason for forming the plural the way we do, > > And then what is the correct form for the plural possessive? Lots of possibilities there. Attorneys general’s. The possessive indicator is attached to the end of the noun phrase. ---
**Author:** ![jepflast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@jepflast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jepflast)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-possessive-case/705125/8 "2014-11-20T05:01:26Z")
I agree with the above answers. But just to be sure, I looked it up in Cambridge Grammar. To paraphrase: The genitive marking ( 's ) is always added to the end of the phrase (a friend of mine’s father), except when the phrase is just too gosh darn long (\*the dog that got into a fight’s collar), in which case you just have to reword things. “Attorney general” is not too long. Singular possessive: attorney general’s Plural possessive: attorneys general’s ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-possessive-case/705125/9 "2014-11-20T05:18:21Z")
> [@Mr\_Downtown](#): > > How many Sevens-Up would be needed to serve them all? They will need crates aplenty. In times past, that was enough for many dreams deferred. If you’re going to stop and pick them up, could you also get some nachos supreme? The ministers plenipotentiary are coming and threatening to call up some courts-martial unless we deliver proof positive of catering extraordinaire. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-possessive-case/705125/10 "2014-11-20T05:27:31Z")
> [@jebert](#): > > But what about forming the possessive of “attorney general”? I’m assuming all dopers know that the plural is “attorneys general”, so is the possessive “attorney’s general” or “attorney general’s”? The former sounds very strange, but the latter seems to be out of line with the reason for forming the plural the way we do Why would you assume that the construction of the possessive form of a noun phrase must follow the same rule as the construction of a plural? The problem with doing so in a post-positive noun phrase is that the adjacent trailing adjective becomes the possessed object, as in “attorney’s general” implying that the attorney possesses a general, because that’s how possessive constructions work. That’s why the possessive form of a noun phrase always treats the phrase as a whole.