# Grammar Question: Was or Were? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 21, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412 "2013-11-21T05:38:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/1 "2013-11-21T05:38:56Z")
A friend of mine is writing a book… The king and queen used to fight with each other a lot, but always made peace. But now they’re both dead. “There were no more king of queen to reconcile with one another.” Were? Was? My ear tells me “was” but my head tells me “were.” ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/2 "2013-11-21T05:59:26Z")
It is impossible to be certain without some immediate context for that sentence, but by the look of it that is a subjunctive, and so should indeed be “were”. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/3 "2013-11-21T06:20:08Z")
_ignore this post_ ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/4 "2013-11-21T06:23:33Z")
Assuming Indistinguishable is right and it’s “king or queen” then it looks like past indicative to me and is ‘was’. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/5 "2013-11-21T06:24:26Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > It is impossible to be certain without some immediate context for that sentence, but by the look of it that is a subjunctive, and so should indeed be “were”. Well, the simple way is default to plural where its unclear. An unknown number is best assumed to be plural. A hypothetical event also called for plural. Its hypothetical that there were any … Its important… An internationally famous song got it wrong… It should be “I wish I were a punk singer with flowers in my hair”. “were” because its hypothetical, its just a wish ! The song makes it clear she wishes to combine 69 and 73 into one, with the idea that the combined strength would cause an actual revolution. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/6 "2013-11-21T06:31:08Z")
This is the post I had written, before deciding I would edit to respond to **njtt** first, which I then ended up losing the edit window on: In general, go with your ear… It knows best. Very few people know explicitly “in their head” as much about the grammar of their native language as they know implicitly “in their ear”. Why does your head suggest “were” anyway? (Also, I presume “king of queen” should read “king or queen”?) * * * And this is what I was going to say to **njtt** : There’s no subjunctive in sight, **njtt** , and besides, you can perfectly well use “was” for (the irrealis that people often call) the subjunctive (“If I was rich, …” is just as acceptable as “If I were rich, …”; the legitimacy of one doesn’t exclude that of the other). ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/7 "2013-11-21T06:32:48Z")
_Bleh, too much editing for me for now… I’ll come back to this thread when I have more time_ ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/8 "2013-11-21T06:52:35Z")
There was a boy. There were a boy and a girl. There was neither a boy nor a girl in the room. There were no children in the room. There were no more king and queen to reconcile with one another. There was neither king nor queen left alive to mourn the other. (if you’re not certain they’re dead) If there was a king or queen left alive, we could have more cake. (if you’re certain they’re dead) If there were a king or queen left alive, we could have more cake. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/9 "2013-11-21T07:13:15Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > . . . In general, go with your ear… It knows best. Very few people know explicitly “in their head” as much about the grammar of their native language as they know implicitly “in their ear”. Sometimes, I have a tin ear… 🙂 > [@](#): > > Why does your head suggest “were” anyway? I keep thinking of “king or queen” as a plural. As in “Where were the king or queen?” rather than “Where was the king or queen?” I can see how “no more” might be the subject, rather than “king or queen,” but if that case you’d also have to say “There was no more kings or queens,” and that sounds horrible! > [@](#): > > (Also, I presume “king of queen” should read “king or queen”?) Is it a variant of Gaudere’s Law, that a post asking for grammar assistance will have errors in it? Aye, king or queen. (Not “King of Queens.”) > [@](#): > > There’s no subjunctive in sight, **njtt** , and besides, you can perfectly well use “was” for (the irrealis that people often call) the subjunctive (“If I was rich, …” is just as acceptable as “If I were rich, …”; the legitimacy of one doesn’t exclude that of the other). I’m old-fashioned enough that “If I was rich” sounds wrong, and I’d use “If I were rich.” But, yes, you’re right, the sentence doesn’t involve a subjunctive. > [@shijinn](#): > > . . . There were no more king and queen to reconcile with one another. . . . > > (if you’re certain they’re dead) > If there were a king or queen left alive, we could have more cake. Well, that’s why we killed her, innit? She told us we could eat cake, di’nshe? So we cut orf 'er ead, di’nwe? Anyway, this seems right…but it still “sounds” wrong. But I think I’ll tell my friend that “were” is right. Thank you both and everyone! What a language! ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/10 "2013-11-21T09:23:19Z")
Hm. I’ve come to feel that both choices are probably fine, analogously to how in, say, “Neither \ nor \ \…”, you can find in frequent use in the wild the verb conjugated for either singular or plural subject according to the whims of the speaker. (Go ahead; Google “Neither Obama nor Romney is” and “Neither Obama nor Romney are”) It’s an interesting question, though; perhaps someone else knows more than me about the conditions governing this particular niche of English speakers’ habits. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/11 "2013-11-21T10:15:34Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > A friend of mine is writing a book… The king and queen used to fight with each other a lot, but always made peace. But now they’re both dead. > > “There were no more king of queen to reconcile with one another.” > > Were? Was? My ear tells me “was” but my head tells me “were.” The whole thing looks clunky to me. reconcile with one another - surely this is bad grammar. Two people are reconciled. “each other” is redundant. Perhaps: With no king and no queen, there could be no reconciliation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/12 "2013-11-21T11:37:00Z")
Was is correct. King or queen is the subject and that’s singular in this context. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/13 "2013-11-21T13:39:36Z")
I agree with the others that it is a horribly clunky construction. As an editor, I tend to apply the rule that if I am confused about which word is required in a sentence, then the whole sentence needs to be recast. Try “Now there was neither king nor queen”. That way there is no dispute over singular versus plural. Actually if I had to write it, I’d go for: “Now there was no more king, no more queen and no more reconciliation.” ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/14 "2013-11-21T13:54:21Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Actually if I had to write it, I’d go for: “Now there was no more king, no more queen and no more reconciliation.” An improvement on my submission ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/15 "2013-11-21T15:03:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Was is correct. King or queen is the subject and that’s singular in this context. This. But I’d rewrite the whole sentence. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/16 "2013-11-21T16:57:21Z")
Yeah, my first reaction was “Rewrite!” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/17 "2013-11-21T17:15:21Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > “There were no more king of queen to reconcile with one another.” > > Were? Was? My ear tells me “was” but my head tells me “were.” There was no more king or queen to reconcile with each other. There were no more king and queen to reconcile with each other. But yeah, rewrite. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/18 "2013-11-21T17:52:26Z")
King _and_ queen is plural, and would use “were”. King _or_ queen is singular, and uses “was”. As it were. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/19 "2013-11-21T21:50:42Z")
I think I agree; a re-write is probably best. Thank you all for the suggestions; I’ll pass 'em along. **Shodan** : thank you specifically for the clarification on singular vs. plural. I somehow never got that lesson in any of my old English classes. “King or queen” is singular. Now I know! (My “ear” was right!) ---
**Author:** ![James\_Toothpaste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e56c9b/32.png) [@James\_Toothpaste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Toothpaste)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412/20 "2013-11-21T22:03:15Z")
It’s was. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-was-or-were/674412.md?page=2)