# Grammar Question. Where is the adverb in the noun+adverb compound noun 'sunrise'? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2024, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068 "2024-03-20T07:04:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/1 "2024-03-20T07:04:50Z")
Where is the adverb in the noun+adverb compound noun ‘sunrise’ ? I must have missed something fundamental in every definition of ‘adverb’ I’ve ever read. I don’t see an adverb in this compound construction. To me most adverbs end in -ly. > **[What are some examples of noun+adverb compound nouns?](https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-examples-of-noun-adverb-compound-nouns)** > > Answer (1 of 5): Such a thing is not possible in English, since adverbs do not tell us anything about nouns. The work of an adverb is to tell us about verbs, adjectives, or other adverbs. Thus, they cannot logically be coupled with a noun. The only... A noun+adverb compound noun is a noun phrase made up of a noun and an adverb that together create a new noun. Some examples include: - “sunrise” (noun: “sun”; adverb: “rise”) - “sunset” (noun: “sun”; adverb: “set”) - “upset” (noun: “up”; adverb: “set”) * * * > **[What are some examples of noun+adverb compound nouns?](https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-examples-of-noun-adverb-compound-nouns)** > > Answer (1 of 5): Such a thing is not possible in English, since adverbs do not tell us anything about nouns. The work of an adverb is to tell us about verbs, adjectives, or other adverbs. Thus, they cannot logically be coupled with a noun. The only... Examples of noun+adverb compound nouns include: - background check - handshake - playback ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/2 "2024-03-20T07:44:31Z")
To me, both parts, “sun” and “rise”, in “sunrise” are nouns. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/3 "2024-03-20T07:48:33Z")
I agree. ---
**Author:** ![Moonrise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moonrise/32/14764_2.png) [@Moonrise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonrise)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/4 "2024-03-20T08:08:44Z")
Not a single adverb in there for me either. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/5 "2024-03-20T08:53:22Z")
> [@Octagon](#): > > Where is the adverb in the noun+adverb compound noun ‘sunrise’ ? There isn’t one. Where do you get the idea that this is a noun+adverb construction? > [@Monty](#): > > To me, both parts, “sun” and “rise”, in “sunrise” are nouns. I don’t think that’s right, although I can see that an argument could made for it, since sunrise refers to the rise (noun) of the sun. More generally, though, when “rise” is used as a noun, it refers to an increase in the quantity of something, like a rise in interest rates. When it refers to something moving from a lower to a higher position, as the sun does in the morning, it’s a verb. During sunrise, the sun **rises** higher in the sky. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/6 "2024-03-20T08:58:53Z")
[rise](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/rise) > _noun_ > > 1. appearance above the horizon, as of the sun or moon. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/7 "2024-03-20T09:30:06Z")
Sure, but it also gives this definition: > _verb_ > > 1. to ascend above the horizon, as a heavenly body. Similarly, **[Merriam-Webster gives](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rise)**: > _verb_ > > 1. to appear above the horizon > the sun _rises_ at six As I said, I can see an argument for both the noun and verb interpretation. But if one assumes that “rise” is being used as a noun, then I would regard “sun” as a _de facto_ adjective called an attributive noun, in the same sense as in words like sunlight, moonlight, sun-bleached, sun-baked, etc. I guess it’s technically still a noun, but it’s a special case where it’s being used as an adjective. Which is a little different than just two nouns being smushed together. Whether this construction is hyphenated is just arbitrary convention. ---
**Author:** ![themapleleaf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/themapleleaf/32/14349_2.png) [@themapleleaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/themapleleaf)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/8 "2024-03-20T09:30:07Z")
Definitely no adverb in there. It’s a simple compound noun. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/9 "2024-03-20T10:45:57Z")
14 would give you _The sun rises_. 34 gives you the compound noun of _sunrise_. Whoever decided to call it an adverb modifying a noun, though? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/10 "2024-03-20T11:11:10Z")
I did some more digging, and while I still think a good case can be made for “rise” as a verb, the expert consensus seems to be that you’re right about it being a noun in this case. But I’m also right that “sun” in this case is an attributive noun, so effectively an adjective. It’s subtly different from just saying that “sun” and “rise” are both nouns ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/11 "2024-03-20T12:33:25Z")
I stumbled on the grammatical term ‘noun adverb’ and found the Quora examples. If there is such a thing as a ‘noun adverb’ can anyone give me a clear example of it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/12 "2024-03-20T12:44:02Z")
Quora is a garbage site, and that entire answer looks like AI-generated garbage to me. There’s no way that “upset” consists of the noun “up” and the adverb “set.” I think the answer is that simple: someone is using AI to automatically answer Quora queries, and this example is especially nonsensical. Less likely but still possible: a human with no freaking idea what a noun or an adverb (or, for that matter, a preposition) is provided that answer. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/13 "2024-03-20T12:45:35Z")
Nevertheless, I can think of a compound word with an adverb/article/noun formation. I can even think of an adverb/adverb compound word, which I will provide henceforth. And there’s a wonderful verb/adjective one, coming up tootsweet. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/14 "2024-03-20T12:46:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > that entire answer looks like AI-generated garbage to me. Absolutely. The last line is the giveaway. Very typical GPT-3 conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/15 "2024-03-20T13:10:15Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > > that entire answer looks like AI-generated garbage to me. > > Absolutely. The last line is the giveaway. Very typical GPT-3 conclusion.   If it’s so “typical” then how come when I just asked ChatGPT 3.5 some of the questions in this thread, its responses were consistent with the general consensus here? Sorry for the digression, and don’t accuse me of holding up ChatGPT as some sort of infallible font of wisdom, but I’m getting sick and tired of every piece of bullshit that someone posts on the internet being attributed to some malfunctioning AI. There are plenty of malfunctioning humans going around. Always have been, always will be. End of digression. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/16 "2024-03-20T13:21:07Z")
> [@Octagon](#): > > I stumbled on the grammatical term ‘noun adverb’ and found the Quora examples. If there is such a thing as a ‘noun adverb’ can anyone give me a clear example of it. They’re called adverbial nouns, or adverbial noun phrases, as the case may be. In the sentence “I’m leaving soon”, “soon” is an adverb modifying the verb “leaving”. But in the sentence “I’m leaving Tuesday”, “Tuesday” is an adverbial noun serving that same function. ---
**Author:** ![Octagon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/2acd7d/32.png) [@Octagon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Octagon)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/17 "2024-03-20T13:30:51Z")
Thank wolfpup.That makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/18 "2024-03-20T13:45:21Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But in the sentence “I’m leaving Tuesday”, “Tuesday” is an adverbial noun serving that same function. In this case, though, isn’t this just elipsis of the prepositional phrase “on Tuesday”? The phrase is adverbial but the words in it are preposition + noun. Given “sunrise” and “moonrise,” I’d agree that sun is functioning adjectivally, but “rise” looks like a noun to me. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/19 "2024-03-20T13:50:50Z")
But it almost certainly is the product of an LLM. It contains all the hallmarks: An introductory paragraph An impeccably formatted series of bullet-pointed examples A concluding summary paragraph I’ve been looking at and grading a lot of LLM output in the last few weeks for a freelance job, and I can tell you with near 100% certainty this is the output of an LLM. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2024, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068/20 "2024-03-20T13:52:30Z")
And if you don’t believe me, here’s my ChatGPT 3.5 answer for the question in the OP: > [@](#): > > Compound nouns formed by combining a noun with an adverb can be found in various contexts. Here are some examples: > > 1. **Bedroom** : “Bed” (noun) + “Room” (adverb) = A room with a bed, where one sleeps. > 2. **Breakfast** : “Break” (noun) + “Fast” (adverb) = The meal that breaks the fast of the night, usually eaten in the morning. > 3. **Aftermath** : “After” (noun) + “Math” (adverb) = The consequences or result of a significant event, often used in a negative context. > 4. **Passageway** : “Passage” (noun) + “Way” (adverb) = A route or path for passage or transit. > 5. **Homestay** : “Home” (noun) + “Stay” (adverb) = A period of lodging in someone’s home, typically arranged by an organization for travelers. > 6. **Sunshine** : “Sun” (noun) + “Shine” (adverb) = The light and warmth received from the sun. > 7. **Haircut** : “Hair” (noun) + “Cut” (adverb) = A style or trim given to hair, often by a professional barber or stylist. > 8. **Outlook** : “Out” (noun) + “Look” (adverb) = A person’s attitude or perspective towards something. > 9. **Showdown** : “Show” (noun) + “Down” (adverb) = A decisive confrontation or contest. > 10. **Fireplace** : “Fire” (noun) + “Place” (adverb) = A structure or area where a fire can be made, typically for heating a room. > > These compound nouns demonstrate how the combination of a noun and an adverb can create new words with specific meanings in various contexts. Hmm…looks pretty … similar? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question-where-is-the-adverb-in-the-noun-adverb-compound-noun-sunrise/999068.md?page=2)