# Grammar question **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 9, 2002, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391 "2002-12-09T00:32:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/1 "2002-12-09T00:32:23Z")
[http://skank-ass.ho.youaremyfriend.com/](http://skank-ass.ho.youaremyfriend.com/) \*there are over 6 billion people alive today out of all those, I consider, (name) my friend\* I say there shouldn’t be a comma after “I consider” Someone else says “There is if you want to represent a small pause.” Who is right? ---
**Author:** ![Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/soul_brother_number_two/32/3515_2.png) [@Soul\_Brother\_Number\_Two](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soul_Brother_Number_Two)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/2 "2002-12-09T00:38:17Z")
No comma. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/3 "2002-12-09T00:44:00Z")
(btw, I hope to show that person this thread at the end… so if anyone has any sort of authoritative cites, please post em) ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/4 "2002-12-09T00:47:43Z")
No comma. twickster47, 10 years as professional editor. ---
**Author:** ![Scarlett67](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scarlett67/32/7387_2.png) [@Scarlett67](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarlett67)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/5 "2002-12-09T00:54:30Z")
No comma. Scarlett67, 7 years as a professional copyeditor. 🙂 There is absolutely no reason to put a comma between a verb and its object. To do so is an error. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/6 "2002-12-09T01:05:11Z")
If it’s a sentence, no comma. If it’s poetry or any other kind of non-standard expression, do whatever you feel like doing. I’d say this definitely falls into the latter category since it’s comedy Flash. And online a comma most definitely can just indicate a pause. I do it all the time when I’m chatting with people. Not wrong, just a different style of writing. hazel-rah, six years as a linguist. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/7 "2002-12-09T01:10:55Z")
I see it as quite jarring. It stands out not as a pause but as an error. There isn’t enough other context to give the “this is a style element” feeling, it just looks like a grammatically incorrect line. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Carnage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/max_carnage/32/12775_2.png) [@Max\_Carnage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Carnage)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/8 "2002-12-09T01:55:36Z")
A comma is an error there alright. I’d think if they wanted a pause there for whatever reason, maybe a dash or ellipses will do. But that’s not what a comma would be used for. ---
**Author:** ![Ruby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/13edae/32.png) [@Ruby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruby)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/9 "2002-12-09T01:59:15Z")
Another vote for no comma. Not just no…_hell_ no! 🙂 Ruby, 43 years on earth with no copy editor or linguistic experience. ---
**Author:** ![hazel-rah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/73ab20/32.png) [@hazel-rah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hazel-rah)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/10 "2002-12-09T02:06:29Z")
Well, I’m not saying it’s _good_ poetry… ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/11 "2002-12-09T02:10:07Z")
Ditch the comma. 48-49 years experience speaking English. ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/12 "2002-12-09T02:24:17Z")
> [@](#): > > **21j: Use commas only where required.** > Commas can make sentences choppy and even confusing if they are used more often than needed… > > **1. Delete any comma after a subject or a verb.** > Commas interrupt the movement from subject to verb to object or complement (see pp. 167-69). > > _Faulty:_ The returning soldiers, received a warmer welcome than they expected. > _Revised:_ The returning soldiers received a warmer welcome than they expected. _The Little, Brown Handbook_, Seventh Edition, and MLA Guidelines. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/13 "2002-12-09T02:24:42Z")
No comma. It’s a rather common practice to insert commas every five or six words, and especially after the subject in a sentence of those who know less than some of the rest of us do. But it’s completely unnecessary, and in the case of the OP example, **Opal** , it’s out of place. Re: the pause, if you’re going to have a pause before the name, it makes more sense to have two unnecessary commas than none. “I consider, Opal, my friend.” vs “I consider, Opal my friend.” The latter is a sentence fragment, whereas the former is just death by improper comma use. “I consider, Opal my friend, that if I knew how to properly use commas I would not still be typing.” If this person wants to put in a reflective pause in, there’s a better way to work not just one but a matching pair (for FREE! Commas are cheap little buggers these days…): Out of the thirteen gumball chewers in the world, I consider you, Opal, one of them. Gets rid of the ugliness of an abused commas (won’t _someone_ think of the commas?), adds a personal touch to it and gets the person their needed reflective pauses. Ran this response past my mother, who’s got X (where X is a number larger than my age, and I’m allowed to drink the funky stuff) years editing and such. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/14 "2002-12-09T04:37:50Z")
As **hazel-rah** said, if it’s poetry you can do what you want, otherwise shouldn’t all you editors be mentioning the lack of capitalization and periods. 😉 And as long as I’m telling you more that you want to know I should mention that the entire structure of the sentence (or sentences) bugs me. For starters it’s unnecessarily long. Instead of _“There are over 6 billion people alive today. Out of all those I consider Skankass-Ho my friend.”_ how about _“Out of the 6 billion people alive today I consider Skankass-Ho my friend.”_ But even so if you’re just saying that she’s your friend why mention the other 6 billion people. If you said that she was your **best** friend or your **only** friend then mentioning the 6 billion other people would matter. In the former case you’re saying that Skankass-Ho ranks first out of 6 billion, and in the latter case you’re saying that you’re such a loser that you’ve got only one friend in 6 billion people and she goes by the name Skankass-Ho. ---
**Author:** ![racinchikki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/eada6e/32.png) [@racinchikki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racinchikki)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/15 "2002-12-09T04:41:47Z")
I didn’t think the issue was “Can there be a comma here because this is poetry?” The issue was “Is it appropriate for there to be a comma here _to indicate a short pause_?” At least, that’s what **Opal** ’s friend said, and what we are refuting. ---
**Author:** ![lindsay.reid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@lindsay.reid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsay.reid)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/16 "2002-12-09T06:16:20Z")
No comma in English. Interestingly enough, there would be one in German, though. ---
**Author:** ![Mobius74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@Mobius74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mobius74)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/17 "2002-12-09T06:47:46Z")
No offense, but, people who, cannot tell, when, to use commas are, almost, as annoying, as those who, insist, on using “your” when, what they, REALLY mean, is “you’re”… Must be “William Shatner Syndrome” or somethin’… ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/18 "2002-12-09T06:48:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by racinchikki \* > \*\*I didn’t think the issue was “Can there be a comma here because this is poetry?” The issue was “Is it appropriate for there to be a comma here _to indicate a short pause_?” At least, that’s what **Opal** ’s friend said, and what we are refuting. \*\* I took the following exchange: "I say there shouldn’t be a comma after “I consider” Someone else says “There is if you want to represent a small pause.”" To mean that the original text might have been written by the author of the second comment, but was not necessarily same author. That, I thought, was borne out in my first reply. IOW, if you _want_ a short pause dictated by a comma, there is a better way to do it, and here it is. The aesthetics of the differences are such that while _I_ prefer the simpler, comma-less version, it’s entirely possible (and not necessarily a bad thing) that it looks/feels/sounds better to someone else. It’s a matter of personal inclinations. Empirically stated (IMO): it is not correct, from a POV of the rules of punctuation in prose English, for a comma to be where there is one in the cited case in the OP. It is furthermore rather easy to make such (re: short pause) feasible. ---
**Author:** ![I\_am\_Sparticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@I\_am\_Sparticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_am_Sparticus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/19 "2002-12-09T08:13:27Z")
As my learned high school english teacher once said to me: “Punctuation has nothing to do with pauses, but rather with correct grammar.” A comma is used to indicate a dependent clause. There is no dependent clause in your example. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2002, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391/20 "2002-12-09T09:19:29Z")
No comma. Cisco, who had the best English teacher in the world three semesters in a row. ::Runs of to say 50 hail Gauderes:: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/141391.md?page=2)