# Grammar question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944 "2015-08-26T13:41:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dauerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c2a13f/32.png) [@dauerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dauerbach)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/1 "2015-08-26T13:41:29Z")
…leave it in the same condition you found it. Right, it sounds like shit. But what is the grammar error called? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/2 "2015-08-26T13:50:09Z")
I don’t think it’s an error. It’s common and idiomatic in English to leave out the relative pronoun in a relative clause. The sentence could also be written, “leave it in the same condition that you found it”, but dropping “that” is fine. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/3 "2015-08-26T14:08:39Z")
It’s missing something – the error is it’s incomplete, and not in the normal way that certain words are assumed but unspoken. I don’t think a native English speaker would say it that way. It should be either: A) Leave it in the same condition you found it in. or B) Leave it in the same condition in which you found it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/4 "2015-08-26T14:32:00Z")
I side with Giles. Dropping words is extremely common in informal speech. It’s not an error and not bad English in any non-formal setting. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/5 "2015-08-26T14:35:37Z")
So it’s the missing preposition “in” that’s the problem. I missed that because leaving out a second preposition that duplicates an earlier preposition sounds right to me, as it does in: Leave it on the same shelf that you found it. [Dropping “on” at the end.] My other thought is that “as” can be used instead of “that”, and you could still drop the final preposition: Leave it in the same condition as you found it. Leave it on the same shelf as you found it. However it is conceivable that these also sound wrong to other native speakers than me: English grammar is not an exact science. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/6 "2015-08-26T14:37:57Z")
> [@Gary\_T](#): > > It’s missing something – the error is it’s incomplete, and not in the normal way that certain words are assumed but unspoken. I don’t think a native English speaker would say it that way. It should be either: > > A) Leave it in the same condition you found it in. > > or > > B) Leave it in the same condition in which you found it. I don’t agree. I don’t think the “leave it” and “found it” portions of the sentence are equivalent in that way. To me, “leave it” is the primary portion of the sentence and “in the same condition you found it” is just a modifier to that. “Leave it in the same condition you found it” is the equivalent of “Leave it in the upright position” or “Leave it in the recycling bin next to the door”. If you view “in the same condition you found it” as a modifying phrase, there’s no need for a second “in”. “In the same condition you found it in” would be like saying “next to the place it’s next to”. ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/7 "2015-08-26T14:41:34Z")
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/8 "2015-08-26T14:46:42Z")
All of the suggestions sound OK but the original sentence OP disliked also seems fine to me and, although slightly informal, _most idiomatic_. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/9 "2015-08-26T15:58:32Z")
This should be in IMHO, but here goes. First off, if you study formal linguistics you will find that the relativizer “that” is, in many contexts, optional whether in formal or informal speech/writing. As for the omission of the “in” I would usually put it in, but I see no problem dropping it either. The original sentence is perfectly acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/10 "2015-08-26T17:48:52Z")
I wouldn’t say it’s a grammatical error. Stylistically, it’s an “elision”. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/11 "2015-08-26T18:21:29Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I don’t agree. I don’t think the “leave it” and “found it” portions of the sentence are equivalent in that way. > > To me, “leave it” is the primary portion of the sentence and “in the same condition you found it” is just a modifier to that. “Leave it in the same condition you found it” is the equivalent of “Leave it in the upright position” or “Leave it in the recycling bin next to the door”. But I found it **in** a condition. I’d have to go with “Leave it in the condition you found it in”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/12 "2015-08-27T04:24:44Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > But I found it **in** a condition. It was in the condition you found it. Now leave it that way. Leave it in the condition you found it. ---
**Author:** ![SigMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@SigMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SigMan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/13 "2015-08-27T05:06:47Z")
Leave it as you found it. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/14 "2015-08-27T16:47:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It was in the condition you found it. > > Now leave it that way. > > Leave it in the condition you found it. Nope, I found the thing, not its condition. “Leave it in…found it in” has a nice parallel. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/15 "2015-08-27T18:10:06Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > Nope, I found the thing, not its condition. “Leave it in…found it in” has a nice parallel. It’s a false parallel. The sentence is about how you should leave it. It isn’t telling you how you should find it. _Leave it_ is the main part of the sentence and _in the same condition you found it_ is a prepositional phrase. The _in_ at the beginning of the phrase connects it to the main part of the sentence that it is modifying. A second _in_ would be redundant. Here’s another example. Suppose you lost your key ring and then found it. You might then say “I found my key ring in the desk drawer.” But you wouldn’t say “I found my key ring in the desk drawer it was in.” A parallel construction of this idea would be “If you find it in good condition, then you leave it in good condition.” Now you have an _if/then_ which is creating an equal status between _you find it_ and _you leave it_ so now both halves justify having their own _in good condition_ modifier. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/16 "2015-08-27T22:03:49Z")
I’m sure you’re right but I will have to stew on this and get used to it! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cub\_Mistress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea666f/32.png) [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/17 "2015-08-28T01:34:39Z")
“Leave it in the same condition in which you found it” would be most correct to me but I would find the original of “leave it in the same condition you found it” understandable and completely acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/18 "2015-08-28T02:05:29Z")
> [@Cub\_Mistress](#): > > “Leave it in the same condition in which you found it” would be most correct to me . . . . “Same” is redundant there, surely? “Leave it as you found it” or “leave it in the condition in which you found it” both seem better to me. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/19 "2015-08-28T02:12:34Z")
Leave it the way you found it. ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944/20 "2015-08-28T02:49:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > If you view “in the same condition you found it” as a modifying phrase, there’s no need for a second “in”. “In the same condition you found it in” would be like saying “next to the place it’s next to”. But a prepositional phrase doesn’t modify in the same way as an adjective. There are two _in_s, one for each underlying verb collocation. A) _I found the bike **in** good shape._ B) _I left the bike **in** good shape._ Technically, leaving out the \*in \*for A) is like saying: _I found the bike good shape._ I think what’s happening here, though, which makes the omission acceptable to most people, is that the prepositional phrase _in [condition]_ is being parsed like an adjective (a true modifer, as **Little Nemo** suggests), which doesn’t take a preposition. A) _I found the kitchen dirty._ B) _I left the kitchen dirty._ _I left the kitchen as I found it._ (…which is another way of saying what **dougie\_monty** suggests above–Yes, it does the trick, but it doesn’t answer the OP.) Part of this, I would say, is because the relative pronoun is dropped, but it’s also because I think that “stranding” prepositions at the end of a clause, (you know, the way you were always forbidden from doing), seems to be less preferred when there is an intervening pronoun (_it_). That’s just a hunch; I’d like to do a corpus search to see if it pans out. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-question/728944.md?page=2)