# Grammar that DOESN'T bother you
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Created:** [November 20, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196 "2006-11-20T19:43:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/21 "2006-11-21T04:51:18Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace]
“Legos” doesn’t bother me.
I say “Kleenexes” as well.
Let the lawyers complain. At work I go by the style guide anyways. 🙂
[/QUOTE]
I’ve seen your style guide, **Sunspace**. I don’t recall seeing either Legos or Kleenexes in it. (Well, they weren’t mentioned, anyway; I won’t say what I found in there. 😉 )
Ahem. It’s not exactly grammar, but I really don’t care about the serial comma, as long as you use it consistently. For example, you can have:
Red, white, and blue.
or
Red, white and blue.
Just as long as you use them consistently. Consistency matters, either way.
---
### Author:  [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/22 "2006-11-21T05:04:51Z")
I make my share of errors. I tend to type things once, and submit them quickly. I’m also good at picking up on my errors, and tend to do this exactly 0.002 seconds after hitting “submit”.
I’ve never apologized for this. This is because I don’t care. I do not correct other people when they make a minor mistake. I think being an insufferable pedant is almost as big a handicap as a distant history of not paying attention during English class. Ironically, much of the grammar I do know I learned while studying French and Spanish.
I will not correct you if you say “ain’t”, or “PIN number”, or “24 beer”. Grammar is not that important to me. I will tell you to lose weight or stop smoking.
---
### Author:  [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/23 "2006-11-21T06:03:53Z")
[QUOTE=Spoons]
I’ve seen your style guide, **Sunspace**. I don’t recall seeing either Legos or Kleenexes in it. (Well, they weren’t mentioned, anyway; I won’t say what I found in there. 😉 )
Ahem. It’s not exactly grammar, but I really don’t care about the serial comma, as long as you use it consistently. For example, you can have:
Red, white, and blue.
or
Red, white and blue.
Just as long as you use them consistently. Consistency matters, either way.
[/QUOTE]
Is that the proper term for it? Serial comma?
---
### Author:  [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/24 "2006-11-21T06:27:31Z")
[QUOTE=Dr\_Paprika]
I will not correct you if you say “ain’t”, or “PIN number”, or “ **24 beer** ”.
[/QUOTE]
(bolding mine)
You know that in proper language, that’s a two-four, right?
One that never bugs me is “anyways”. I know there’s not supposed to be an extra “s” on there, but I don’t really care.
---
### Author:  [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/25 "2006-11-21T06:39:10Z")
There are many grammatical nuances and restrictions over which I wish the academic world at large would get the hell. Of these, the most ridiculous to my mind would have to be the rule against ending sentences with prepositions.
My best guess is that this “rule” was created to prevent prepositions getting attached to the ends of sentences whose verbs didn’t require them (i.e., “Where should I go to?”, when “Where should I go?” would do just fine). There are times, however, when ending sentences (or clauses) with prepositions not only is not redundant, but also makes the phrase more efficient and therefore easier to parse. Consider the following real-life example: I received an email from a coworker stating that someone needed an estimated timeframe for “research on an account”. No mention was made of what sort of research we were supposedly doing on this account, nor of what sort of account it was, nor who was requesting this estimate. To ensure that my response was correct and professional, according to the prescriptivist grammarians, I would need to pose the following query:
> [@](#):
>
> I’m not sure exactly to what you’re referring. If you’ll please tell me for which sort of research you need a timeframe and to whom I need to send it, I’ll be glad to give an estimate.
Now, look me in the eye and tell me that that scans better than:
> [@](#):
>
> I’m not sure exactly what you’re referring to. If you’ll please tell me which sort of research you need a timeframe for and whom I need to send it to, I’ll be glad to give an estimate.
Or, for a better example, just look at the first sentence of this post. I mean, c’mon…
---
### Author:  [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/26 "2006-11-21T06:47:45Z")
[QUOTE=Pygmy Rugger]
Is that the proper term for it? Serial comma?
[/QUOTE]
That’s the term I learned for it. And a number of English/Grammar/Linguistics teachers I’ve studied under have referred to it by that term. My 13th edition of the _Chicago Manual_ calls it a “series comma,” but I figure that’s close enough to “serial” to count.
---
### Author:  [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/27 "2006-11-21T06:54:36Z")
[QUOTE=Antigen]
You know that in proper language, that’s a two-four, right?
[/QUOTE]
Actually, if we really wanted to split hairs on this one, you’d properly call it a “deuce.” Try it the next time you’re in Ontario. Go into any Beer Store and ask for a deuce of, say, Molson Canadian. Next thing you know, 24 Molson Canadians are coming down the roller at you. The Beer Store folks will be impressed–not many of the public know the proper in-house term of “deuce” for “two-four.”
I won’t tell you what a “six of keg” means. You’re gonna be on your own for that one. 😃
Spoons
Ex-Beer Store Cashier
---
### Author:  [@aclubs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aclubs)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/28 "2006-11-21T09:17:32Z")
I like to boldly split infinitives that no man has split before.
---
### Author:  [@scareyfaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scareyfaerie)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/29 "2006-11-21T09:20:08Z")
“Xerox” ceases to bother me, I know you mean “photocopy” really, you’re just too idle to use those extra syllables.
---
### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/30 "2006-11-21T13:51:34Z")
I’m okay with 24/7.
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### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/31 "2006-11-21T13:55:43Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas]
I’m okay with 24/7.
[/QUOTE]
That’s not a grammar issue, that’s just slang.
It’s a slang thang.
---
### Author:  [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/32 "2006-11-21T15:05:03Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck]
What’s ungrammatical about it? If you feel good, then you’re healthy; if you feel well, you have a very good sense of touch.
[/QUOTE]
😛
How are you?
[I am] good.
I try not to toot my own horn like that.
---
### Author:  [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/33 "2006-11-21T15:27:34Z")
[QUOTE=Spoons]
Actually, if we really wanted to split hairs on this one, you’d properly call it a “deuce.” Try it the next time you’re in Ontario. Go into any Beer Store and ask for a deuce of, say, Molson Canadian. Next thing you know, 24 Molson Canadians are coming down the roller at you. The Beer Store folks will be impressed–not many of the public know the proper in-house term of “deuce” for “two-four.”
I won’t tell you what a “six of keg” means. You’re gonna be on your own for that one. 😃
Spoons
Ex-Beer Store Cashier
[/QUOTE]
I’m confused; in Canada, you don’t call a package of 24 beers a “case”, but instead you use “deuce”?
---
### Author:  [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/34 "2006-11-21T17:19:32Z")
[QUOTE=BwanaBob]
I’m confused; in Canada, you don’t call a package of 24 beers a “case”, but instead you use “deuce”?
[/QUOTE]
No, “case” for a package of 24 cans or bottles is far more common and understood by everybody: “Bob, you going to get some beer? Can you pick me up a case of Blue?”
“Deuce” is in-house slang at the province of Ontario’s beer retailing chain of stores, called (appropriately enough) [The Beer Store](http://www.thebeerstore.ca/). As an ex-employee of the Beer Store, I know the language its workers speak. I’ll admit to having gone into a Beer Store and asked for, say, “a deuce of Blue,” and received exactly what I’ve asked for.
Beer Stores don’t exist anywhere else except Ontario, so here in the province of Alberta (where I live now), “deuce” meaning “a case of 24” is understood by nobody. I’ve used the term with friends here, who had no idea what I was talking about when I used it.
Anyway, **BwanaBob** , hope this clears up the confusion. Sorry for the hijack, folks. Let’s get back to grammar.
---
### Author:  [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/35 "2006-11-21T17:27:14Z")
Ending a sentence with a preposition doesn’t get me riled up. Frankly, I don’t think it’s incorrect to do so anyway.
---
### Author:  [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/36 "2006-11-21T17:37:26Z")
[QUOTE=Spoons]
That’s the term I learned for it. And a number of English/Grammar/Linguistics teachers I’ve studied under have referred to it by that term. My 13th edition of the _Chicago Manual_ calls it a “series comma,” but I figure that’s close enough to “serial” to count.
[/QUOTE]
And **Spoons** taught me, so that’s the term I use. I am now subverting others with it. Bwa-ha-ha-haaa…
Minor side note: I rank clarity as more important than consistency. I will try to be consistent, but if I must break consistency to be clear, I will do so. Still, one has to know the rules to break them.
(I am currently attempting to explain English grammar to a Russian women. This is… interesting. More and more I realise how this language and especially its spelling is just duct-taped together out of a mass of historical accidents. At least French is consistently mis-spelled.)
BTW, **Spoons** , that wasn’t a hijack; it was a usage note. 😃
---
### Author:  [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/37 "2006-11-21T17:38:03Z")
[QUOTE=ScareyFaerie]
“Xerox” ceases to bother me, I know you mean “photocopy” really, you’re just too idle to use those extra syllables.
[/QUOTE]
That doesn’t bother me either; Xerox is one of those fortunate brand names that’s just so popular it’s become a common noun. Q-tip and Kleenex are in the same boat.
ATM machine and PIN number don’t bother me anymore, but “Please RSVP” still does. :smack:
---
### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/38 "2006-11-21T17:41:03Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace]
(I am currently attempting to explain English grammar to a Russian women. This is… interesting.
[/QUOTE]
[hijack]The one whose mom fixed you up? How’s that going?[/hijack]
---
### Author:  [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/39 "2006-11-21T17:51:34Z")
[QUOTE=twickster]
[hijack]The one whose mom fixed you up? How’s that going?[/hijack]
[/QUOTE]
Not bad, not bad. We exchanged pictures; she seems completely normal… but of course we don’t know much about each other, and I have no idea whether we would otherwise be compatible (in interests, or whatever). Also, she lives in the Russian Far East, which puts an interesting possible twist on my plan to visit Japan next year.
I may have a possibility a lot closer to home (specifically, three subway stops away). I’ll find out this weekend, I hope.
Thanks for asking!
---
### Author:  [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)
#### Post date: [November 21, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-that-doesnt-bother-you/381196/40 "2006-11-21T18:14:01Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp]
That doesn’t bother me either; Xerox is one of those fortunate brand names that’s just so popular it’s become a common noun. Q-tip and Kleenex are in the same boat.
ATM machine and PIN number don’t bother me anymore, but “Please RSVP” still does. :smack:
[/QUOTE]
Isn’t there a word for things like Xerox, Kleenex, Windex, Coke… that have become the standard way of refering to generic items also?
I agree with ATM machine and Pin number being “okay”. The thing that bothers me (or perhaps it’s my own confusion) is that, IIRC, RSVP is french for “reply if you please.” As in, if you feel like telling me you’re coming, that’s cool, but it’s not necessary. So, when they say please RSVP, does that mean, please respond even if you _don’t_ feel like it?
[QUOTE=Spoons]
That’s the term I learned for it. And a number of English/Grammar/Linguistics teachers I’ve studied under have referred to it by that term. My 13th edition of the _Chicago Manual_ calls it a “series comma,” but I figure that’s close enough to “serial” to count.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks, it makes sence now!
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