# Grammar--which is correct: "his" or "him..." **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 29, 2018, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-which-is-correct-his-or-him/820479 "2018-08-29T16:29:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2018, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-which-is-correct-his-or-him/820479/21 "2018-08-31T22:55:47Z")
ETA: oops, I’m saying nominative case throughout the above post when I mean objective case ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-which-is-correct-his-or-him/820479/22 "2018-09-01T00:12:29Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Under this analysis, why wouldn’t you say “I don’t recall _he_ ever telling me that”? ‘Recall’ is the main verb of the independent clause. Being the object of ‘recall’ overrides being the subject of ‘tell’. To correct myself though: ‘that’ is the object of ‘tell’ and ‘me’ is an indirect object. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-which-is-correct-his-or-him/820479/23 "2018-09-01T01:35:14Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > When faced with grammar questions in a complex sentence, it’s often easiest to simplify the sentence to give you the correct result > > “I don’t recall the book.” is simple > > “I don’t recall his book.” equally so. > > Recall takes a direct object, a noun. Both “the” and “his” are modifying the noun. > > In your sentence the direct object is the noun phrase “telling me about that.” His modifies the noun phrase. “I don’t recall him with a book” is equally simple. You’re remembering the man with or without certain features. OP, “him” is correct. Anyone saying otherwise is old and will be dead soon. Their vote can be discarded. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-which-is-correct-his-or-him/820479/24 "2018-12-11T15:53:57Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > ‘Recall’ is the main verb of the independent clause. Being the object of ‘recall’ overrides being the subject of ‘tell’. That’s not how it works. If the entire dependent clause is the object of the verb, that doesn’t affect the case of the subject _within_ the dependent clause. A subject of a dependent clause remains in the subjective case, regardless of the role that the entire dependent clause plays as a whole with respect to the independent clause. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-which-is-correct-his-or-him/820479/25 "2018-12-11T16:37:36Z")
I’ve been an English teacher for several decades and I teach English use, which we often call “rules” although they are not. One of the most important points about English that I teach my students is that there is no official grammar in English, “correctness” is simply based upon usage. There is no RAE, as there is in Spanish, that watches over the language for contamination. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-which-is-correct-his-or-him/820479/26 "2018-12-11T21:03:22Z")
And even languages that do have official academies are still determined by usage. When the academy disagrees with the actual usage, it is the academy which is wrong (or at least, describing the rules for a different language than the one the people actually speak). ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-which-is-correct-his-or-him/820479/27 "2018-12-11T23:32:32Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > That’s not how it works. If the entire dependent clause is the object of the verb, that doesn’t affect the case of the subject _within_ the dependent clause. A subject of a dependent clause remains in the subjective case, regardless of the role that the entire dependent clause plays as a whole with respect to the independent clause. He/him is not actually the subject of a dependent clause. There is no finite verb there. On further reflection, I think ‘telling’ is a gerund, not a verb, as other people have alreadysaid. Apparently gerunds are modified by adverbs rather than adjectives. But it is still a bit confusing. a) Swimming the Channel was a feat of endurance. b) His swimming of the Channel was completed in record time. c) \*Him swimming of the Channel was completed in record time. d) \*Him swimming the Channel was completed in record time e) \*His swimming the Channel was completed in record time f) His swimming the Channel was a feat of endurance. g) Him swimming the Channel was a feat of endurance. I don’t really understand why some of these are OK, and some are not. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-which-is-correct-his-or-him/820479/28 "2018-12-11T23:58:07Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > He/him is not actually the subject of a dependent clause. There is no finite verb there. I was addressing your own analysis. My answer to the OP’s question remains unchanged. > [@](#): > > On further reflection, I think ‘telling’ is a gerund, not a verb, > [@](#): > > Apparently gerunds are modified by adverbs rather than adjectives. But it is still a bit confusing. It’s a noun so it must be modified by an adjective. It’s only confusing if you think of it as a verb. ---
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-which-is-correct-his-or-him/820479/29 "2018-12-12T00:08:10Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I was addressing your own analysis. My answer to the OP’s question remains unchanged. > > It’s a noun so it must be modified by an adjective. It’s only confusing if you think of it as a verb. If it must be modified by an adjective then it cannot be modified by ‘ever’, which is an adverb. In your analysis, what does ‘ever’ modify? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-which-is-correct-his-or-him/820479.md?page=1)