# Grammar: Would have went? vs. gone? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 22, 2006, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748 "2006-09-22T18:00:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/1 "2006-09-22T18:00:07Z")
It’s amazing how many people say “would have went” when the correct phrase is “would have gone”. But, what actually makes the latter phrase technicaly correct over the first? Must be something about …subjunctive future-past conditional blah blah blah verb tenses, right? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/2 "2006-09-22T18:16:35Z")
The modal verb “have” as used to form tenses is to be preceded by past participle, which is “gone” in the case of “to go.” You can’t add an imperfect form (“went”) to it. In many cases, notably the regular verbs, the imperfect and past participle forms of English verbs are the same (I dreamed vs _I have dreamed_), but in many irregular verbs you see the difference between the two (eat-ate-eaten, do-did-done etc). ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/3 "2006-09-22T18:17:38Z")
[QUOTE=Jinx] It’s amazing how many people say “would have went” when the correct phrase is “would have gone”. But, what actually makes the latter phrase technicaly correct over the first? Must be something about …subjunctive future-past conditional blah blah blah verb tenses, right? [/QUOTE] “Gone” is the past participle. “Went” is the simple past. The “have/had” verb constructions (perfect tenses) take the past participle. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/4 "2006-09-22T18:18:56Z")
Of course “have” is to be followed, not preceded, by the past participle. And please excuse my miscodings. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/5 "2006-09-22T18:21:57Z")
I don’t hear “would have gone” much, but I sure do hear “have ran” and “would have ran” “Would have gone” is correct because it’s a past participle phrase. But given the continuing simplification of English, it’s not surprising that many people mix up the past perfect and preterit forms, and they will probably merge and become the “correct” form in the future. Interestingly, it’s not always the preterit form that wins out; sometimes the participle form starts replacing the preterit. [ul] [li]go - went - gone becoming go-went-went; preterit winning out[/li][li]run - ran - run becoming run-ran-ran; preterit winning out[/li][li]but sink-sank-sunk giving way to sink-sunk-sunk; participle winning out[/li]and stink-stank-stunk giving way to stink-stunk-stunk; participle winning out[/ul] ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/6 "2006-09-22T19:02:54Z")
[QUOTE=Schnitte] In many cases, notably the regular verbs, the imperfect and past participle forms of English verbs are the same (I dreamed vs _I have dreamed_) … [/QUOTE] You picked an interesting but odd example though, since the irregular form “dreamt” is still in common use, both as the imperfect past and the past participle. You could even mix them up in your speech, if you were eccentric enough. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/7 "2006-09-22T22:10:08Z")
[QUOTE=Jinx] It’s amazing how many people say “would have went” . . . [/QUOTE] Or worse, “would of went,” or worse still, “woulda went.” ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/8 "2006-09-22T22:36:00Z")
[QUOTE=panache45] Or worse, “would of went,” or worse still, “woulda went.” [/QUOTE] There’s nothing wrong with _saying_ “would of went” as you’re actually saying “would’ve went.” “Woulda” is just a further spoken and sometimes written contraction of this. I have no problem with “woulda” in extremely informal writing (e.g. emails, chats, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/9 "2006-09-22T22:37:57Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] There’s nothing wrong with _saying_ “would of went” as you’re actually saying “would’ve went.” “Woulda” is just a further spoken and sometimes written contraction of this. I have no problem with “woulda” in extremely informal writing (e.g. emails, chats, etc.) [/QUOTE] Sorry, of course I meant “would’ve gone” and “woulda gone.” ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2006, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/10 "2006-09-22T23:45:49Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] … but I sure do hear “have ran” and “would have ran” [/QUOTE] This sounds wrong to me - I’d say: I _have run_ 20 miles If I’d stopped half way, I _would have run_ only 10 miles. Is this incorrect … or a Britishism? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/11 "2006-09-23T01:38:56Z")
> [@Shrinking Violet](#): > > This sounds wrong to me I think **SoP** agrees that it’s grammatically wrong—it should be “have run”, etc., because “run” is the past participle—but he hears a lot of people saying it anyway. IME British English doesn’t tolerate using the finite past tense where the past participle is required, but some Brits doubtless do it anyway, just as some Americans do. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/12 "2006-09-25T16:28:08Z")
[QUOTE=Schnitte] In many cases, notably the regular verbs, the imperfect and past participle forms of English verbs are the same (I dreamed vs _I have dreamed_), but in many irregular verbs you see the difference between the two (eat-ate-eaten, do-did-done etc). [/QUOTE] English did use to have a regular past participle prefix ‘ge-’, which became ‘y-’ by Chaucer’s time, and then disappeared in the next century or so, just as I’ve come across some German dialects that have also lost it. Regarding sink-sank-sunk, my own internal and completely nonprescriptive grammar suggests that this is a transitive/intransitive difference. “You **sunk** my battleship!” (transitive --sounds OK to me) but “The battleship sank.” (intransitive, ‘sunk’ sounds wrong to me) ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grammar-would-have-went-vs-gone/373748/13 "2006-09-25T17:08:04Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] But given the continuing simplification of English, it’s not surprising that many people mix up the past perfect and preterit forms, and they will probably merge and become the “correct” form in the future. Interestingly, it’s not always the preterit form that wins out; sometimes the participle form starts replacing the preterit. [/QUOTE] Shouldn’t that movie have been “Honey, I Shrank The Kids”? 🙂