# Grand Jury to hear evidence against Trump, weigh potential charges **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 25, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916 "2021-05-25T21:27:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/1 "2021-05-25T21:28:00Z")
[Prosecutor in Trump criminal probe convenes grand jury to hear evidence, weigh potential charges](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-investigation-grand-jury/2021/05/25/5f47911c-bcca-11eb-83e3-0ca705a96ba4_story.html) > [@WaPo](#): > > Manhattan’s district attorney has convened the grand jury that is expected to decide whether to indict former president Donald Trump, other executives at his company or the business itself should prosecutors present the panel with criminal charges, according to two people familiar with the development. > > The panel was convened recently and will sit three days a week for six months. It is likely to hear several matters — not just the Trump case ­— during the duration of its term, which is longer than a traditional New York state grand-jury assignment, these people said. Like others, they spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation. Generally, special grand juries such as this one are convened to participate in long-term matters rather than to hear evidence of crimes charged routinely. > > The move indicates that District Attorney Cyrus R. Vance Jr.’s investigation of the former president and his business has reached an advanced stage after more than two years. It suggests, too, that Vance believes he has found evidence of a crime — if not by Trump then by someone potentially close to him or by his company. I figure this is a new enough development in the ongoing investigations into our late, lamented president that it’s worth a new thread. > [@](#): > > Rebecca Roiphe, a former assistant district attorney in Manhattan who is now a professor at New York Law School . . . said the recent step of seating a long-term panel shows that Vance’s investigation has progressed to the point that prosecutors will visit the grand jury, bring them evidence and witnesses, and potentially ask them to contemplate charges. They were unlikely to take that step without believing they had evidence to show there was probable cause to believe someone committed a crime, she said. > > “The prosecutors are convinced they have a case. That’s at least how I read it,” Roiphe added. As for the charges, > [@](#): > > Vance’s investigation is expansive, according to people familiar the probe and public disclosures made during related litigation. His investigators are scrutinizing Trump’s business practices before he was president, including whether the value of specific properties in the Trump Organization’s real estate portfolio were manipulated in a way that defrauded banks and insurance companies, and if any tax benefits were obtained illegally through unscrupulous asset valuation. > > The district attorney also is examining the compensation provided to top Trump Organization executives, people familiar with the matter have said. It’ll be really interesting to see how this develops. With a six-month grand jury, will charges drop just in time for Christmas? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/2 "2021-05-25T21:45:49Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’ll be really interesting to see how this develops. With a six-month grand jury, will charges drop just in time for Christmas? Given that Cy Vance is retiring at the end of December and he will want to make the charging decisions, I’d say we’ll see charges drop (assuming indictments are returned… what are the odds?) sooner than that. I had predicted as soon as August and I think I’ll stick with that. There are likely to be rolling charges/superseding indictments arising out of this news about the Grand Jury. Likely they’ve been convened for awhile, too. The wheels of justice grind slowly, but maybe a little quicker going forward from here. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/3 "2021-05-25T21:48:27Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > It’ll be really interesting to see how this develops. With a six-month grand jury, will charges drop just in time for Christmas? I know what I want in my ~~Christmas~~ Hanukah stocking. ---
**Author:** ![Ranch\_Dip](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranch_dip/32/5238_2.png) [@Ranch\_Dip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranch_Dip)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/4 "2021-05-25T21:50:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > our late, lamented president Sadly, he is just our previous president. We only wish he was the late president. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/5 "2021-05-25T21:54:44Z")
Good news everyone! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/6 "2021-05-25T22:07:11Z")
Oh no. Does this mean there might be some truth to the idea that Trump isn’t completely on the level? [Looks at MAGA hat with tears welling up] ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/7 "2021-05-25T22:12:31Z")
Are there “top Trump Organization executives” who aren’t named Trump? If so, they may be watching the large bus headed their way and trying to figure out how to end up on it rather than under it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/8 "2021-05-25T22:23:17Z")
Yes, his Chief Financial Officer. There’s been a lot of speculation that the DA’s office is leaning hard on him and on his two sons, who also worked for the Trump Org. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/9 "2021-05-25T22:32:55Z")
Three days a week for 6 months is really intense. I’d expect to see things starting to heat up rather soon. I am counting down to the “Alan, who barely knew him”. “I take pictures with all sorts of people”. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/10 "2021-05-25T23:50:59Z")
Dude will skate like he always does. He’ll throw his accountant and even his kids under the bus. Not to mention all he needs is one MAGAbot on the jury should charges ever be filed. Now if we hear that an orange jumpsuit maker has been in contact with Donnie’s tailor to get his measurements, then I’ll start doing the happy dance. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/11 "2021-05-26T00:09:51Z")
Do grand juries in NY need to be unanimous? I know rules vary by state. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/12 "2021-05-26T00:16:27Z")
No, they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/13 "2021-05-26T01:43:01Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > With a six-month grand jury, will charges drop just in time for Christmas? Oh, then it would be The Most Wonderful Time of the Year! ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/14 "2021-05-26T05:10:56Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > Do grand juries in NY need to be unanimous? > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Not to mention all he needs is one MAGAbot **on the jury should charges ever be filed.** Emphasis added by me. They are talking about the actual trial jury should charges ever be filed, not the grand jury. So the question is, do felony-trial juries have to be unanimous to convict in New York? Also, if there is a hold-out don’t they get a hung jury, not an acquittal? Then they can do the whole thing over again until they get it right. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/15 "2021-05-26T05:19:19Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > So the question is, do felony-trial juries have to be unanimous to convict in New York? I don’t live in New York and IANAL, but I think they must be unanimous. The SCOTUS recently ruled that states are constitutionally required to have unanimous jury verdicts in criminal trials. That is playing a bit of hell here in Oregon, where we didn’t require unanimity. At least they didn’t make their ruling retroactive. In answer to your second question, yes, there can be a retrial if the jury hangs. It is not an acquittal. It’s up to the prosecutors whether they want to retry a case. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/16 "2021-05-26T05:20:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > … He’ll throw his accountant **and even his kids under the bus**. … I could live with that. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/17 "2021-05-26T05:23:06Z")
The question is - which of Loser Donald’s kids will be the first to throw themselves under the bus in the hopes of earning Daddy’s approval? My money’s on Eric. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/18 "2021-05-26T05:23:10Z")
This will be in NYC, which voted overwhelmingly Biden, and it won’t be hard to look at social media, etc and get rid of the worst. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/19 "2021-05-26T05:24:48Z")
It’s harder to get on a jury when you’re a squirrel than one might think. I expect they’re going to weed very carefully in a trial arising out of any indictments in this case. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/20 "2021-05-26T05:29:02Z")
This is separate from the lawsuit about inciting the Jan 6 insurrection, which the orange shit-gibbon is sufficiently worried about that he’s gone public with his defense, which is essentially a variation of Nixon’s “it’s not illegal if the president does it”. There was justifiable speculation that he’d have to win in 2020 or face serious legal consequences for his many transgressions, and it appears to be coming true on a number of different fronts. My guess is that for the first time in his life, the orange shit-gibbon is actually running scared. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916.md?page=2)