# Grand Jury to hear evidence against Trump, weigh potential charges **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 25, 2021, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916 "2021-05-25T21:27:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/201 "2021-07-12T14:00:32Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Oh come on, you want UltraVries to read the actual 24-page indictment to figure out what’s going on here? That’s a shit-ton of mind-numbing legalese. It’s not like the poor guy’s a lawyer. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > All he needs to read is scrolled along the bottom of his FOX news channel Comments of this sort are highly inappropriate in P&E. Personal attacks are not permitted here. No warnings issued today but remember what forum you’re posting in and what tone is expected here. RickJay Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/202 "2021-07-12T14:19:31Z")
Pure speculation by a former federal prosecutor: > **[Ivanka Trump Is Probably Next on the Chopping Block: Former Federal Prosecutor](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/07/ivanka-trump-next-for-manhattan-da)** > > Experts say the Manhattan District Attorney’s Office is likely looking into “consulting fees” paid to Ivanka despite her having been a full-time employee of the Trump Organization. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/203 "2021-07-12T14:45:23Z")
Michael Cohen is on fine form there, at the end of the article. When asked what Donald would do if Ivanka were in the crosshairs, he replied: > [@](#): > > Absolutely nothing and keep praying it’s not him! > #IvankaWho ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/204 "2021-07-12T14:50:24Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Pure speculation by a former federal prosecutor: Indeed. This is a small diversion, but I admit to being exasperated with the fact that more and more news is “A guy says something could theoretically happen.” That is not news. News would be “Ivanka Trump will be charged with a number of crimes this week” or even “A reliable source inside the NYAG office tells us Ivanka Trump will be charged.” Literally not one single word in this link - not a single one - constitutes actual reporting on evidence of charges being laid against Ivanka Trump. It’s logically equivalent to me writing an article saying “Johnny Depp could die this weekend” and quoting “sources” saying that, well, it is theoretically possible Johnny Depp could inadvertently step in front a bus while crossing the street this coming weekend. It’s undeniably a true statement as written, but it’s meaningless and not news. As much as I dislike Ivanka Trump, this sort of “reporting” is a disgrace. It’s a waste of electrons, and it’s appallingly lazy; it’s the kind of thing a person writes because it’s relatively easy to paste together and because actually investigating a real story would have taken longer. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/205 "2021-07-12T14:56:11Z")
I agree with that, except that it’s worth extracting from the speculation the point that Weisselberg also played the “employee/non-employee” shell game that Ivanka is believed to have done. As such, it’s worth seeing how much weight that is given in Weisselberg’s case. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/206 "2021-07-12T15:02:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This is a small diversion, but I admit to being exasperated with the fact that more and more news is “A guy says something could theoretically happen.” That is not news. News would be “Ivanka Trump will be charged with a number of crimes this week” or even “A reliable source inside the NYAG office tells us Ivanka Trump will be charged.” I’m in total agreement with RickJay on this. There is just way too much speculation without evidence to even be noteworthy. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/207 "2021-07-12T16:05:48Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I agree with that, except that it’s worth extracting from the speculation the point that Weisselberg also played the “employee/non-employee” shell game that Ivanka is believed to have done “Is believed to.” I will not be at all surprised if she’s charged with crimes; she’s scum. The Trumps are dirty. But it’s not news until there are facts to report. Richard Nixon was a paranoid scumbag but if Woodward and Bernstein had written something years in advance, like in 1969, saying “Nixon is a paranoid scumbag, so he might possibly have knowledge of a burglary at some point, and we think he’d cover it up” that wouldn’t have been worth the newsprint it was printed on. Watergate become reportable news when new facts came to light. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2021, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/208 "2021-07-12T16:54:07Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > There is just way too much speculation without evidence to even be noteworthy. Yeah, that’s _our_ job. Stay in your lane, VF! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2022, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/209 "2022-07-06T00:18:55Z")
Update: > **[Jennifer Weisselberg is set to testify in a trial against the Trump...](https://news.yahoo.com/jennifer-weisselberg-set-testify-trial-222506230.html)** > > The Manhattan DA's office is preparing witnesses for its case against the Trump Organization, which will likely go to trial in the fall. This is the former daughter-in-law of the Trump Organization’s CFO (Allen Weisselberg). Apparently, in _her_ divorce proceedings, she came into documents that “described how Allen Weisselberg used company funds to pay for apartments and tuition. According to the indictment, Trump personally signed tuition checks — which prosecutors said amounted to untaxed income.” Stay tuned … ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/210 "2022-07-06T17:03:01Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > This is the former daughter-in-law of the Trump Organization’s CFO (Allen Weisselberg). > > Apparently, in _her_ divorce proceedings, she came into documents that “described how Allen Weisselberg used company funds to pay for apartments and tuition. According to the indictment, Trump personally signed tuition checks — which prosecutors said amounted to untaxed income.” > > Stay tuned … I’m a bit jaded since he can try to overthrow the government and still, no indictment. The above will become a fine at best. And of course THAT will end up being more money in Trumps pocket when he asks for more donations. I doubt he will go the Al Capone way. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/211 "2022-07-06T17:40:34Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I doubt he will go the Al Capone way. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was syphilitic. It would explain a lot. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2022, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/212 "2022-07-06T17:42:53Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > I wouldn’t be surprised if he was syphilitic. It would explain a lot. I was talking tax evasion. But it would not surprise me in the least if you are correct. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/213 "2022-12-06T20:55:18Z")
guilty on all counts! ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2022, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/214 "2022-12-06T21:11:44Z")
This? > **[Trump Organization guilty of tax fraud, New York jury finds](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/06/trump-organization-guilty-verdict-tax-fraud)** > > Twelve-person jury returns guilty verdict against former president’s company after being sent out on Monday to deliberate j ETA - there are so many actions, I lose track ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/215 "2022-12-06T21:12:43Z")
yes, that. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2022, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/216 "2022-12-06T22:08:54Z")
Anyone knowledgeable in this area care to weigh in on consequences? Or are we still several appeals and stalling tactics away from actual consequences? ---
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/217 "2022-12-07T04:56:41Z")
All I know is that they were found guilty of 17 counts and the 17th letter of the alphabet is Q! Cue the conspiracy theorists. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/218 "2022-12-07T05:01:59Z")
There will be the inevitable motion to set aside the jury’s verdict. It will be denied by the trial judge. There will be as many appeals as can be made, on as many grounds as the defendant can pull out of his ass think of. In short, yes, there are several appeals and stalling tactics that remain available to avoid actual consequences. For awhile. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/219 "2022-12-07T06:42:54Z")
Well, I’m still sure that Don will never actually go to jail, but I’ll enjoy this stain on the otherwise fine reputation of the Trump Organization. Har Har Yuk Yuk ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916/220 "2022-12-07T11:46:39Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Anyone knowledgeable in this area care to weigh in on consequences? Or are we still several appeals and stalling tactics away from actual consequences? Appeals will happen. Business will slide over to Trump Org Mark II to try and distance it from this ruling and the stain of fraud. Setting those aside, the main consequences are: - Weisselberg is going to jail for a little while and has been thrown under the bus by the Trumps and everyone else; - The firm has to pay a rather desultory $1.6 million; - Donald is throwing a whiny tittybaby tantrum online; - This will put a serious dent on the firm’s ability to raise money through loans and investments, although this may just encourage more money laundering type cashflows into and through the business; and - It will seriously bolster the civil case AG James is moving forward with, which is aiming for a much, much higher fine for the firm and individual fines from Donald and certain of his offspring. The last one is the most material consequence of this, particularly as it does not have to wait for the criminal appeals process to grind slowly on. James must be thrilled. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-jury-to-hear-evidence-against-trump-weigh-potential-charges/942916.md?page=12)