# Grand-Master of Science Fiction: The Final Conflict **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 30, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452 "2010-11-30T19:56:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![vdgg81](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/3d9bf3/32.png) [@vdgg81](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vdgg81)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/41 "2010-12-02T04:20:22Z")
> [@Spoke](#): > > Yeah, I didn’t want to attack anybody’s favorites, but really I agree with this. I suspect people read some of this stuff when they were young and less discerning, and are voting based on happy memories. You know, I think you’re exactly right. Now that that’s out of the way… Go Isaac, go! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2010, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/42 "2010-12-02T12:57:13Z")
At least Clarke pulled ahead of Zelazny. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/43 "2010-12-04T14:06:30Z")
With 161 votes in, it looks like Heinlein is the projected winner. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/44 "2010-12-04T17:13:37Z")
I’ll get the press releases drafted. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/45 "2010-12-04T17:59:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > With 161 votes in, it looks like Heinlein is the projected winner. To tell you the truth, I am amazed how close Isaac is. I would have expected more votes for Clark at Isaac’s expense. ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/46 "2010-12-04T21:05:18Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > To tell you the truth, I am amazed how close Isaac is. I would have expected more votes for Clark at Isaac’s expense. Yes. [Even Asimov agreed that Clarke was a better SF writer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov#Popular_science) ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/47 "2010-12-04T21:49:29Z")
I’m with **Left Hand of Dorkness** on this one. I read, and loved, a lot of Asimov’s stuff, but he’s really not a great writer. His stories are carried by his ideas, and they’re fantastic, but the fiction part of science fiction? Not so much. Clarke’s my pick - he suffers from some of the same, but less so, and I think he does the Science part much better than Heinlein. If anything, I would say Heinlein was the best writer (albeit a very biased one), and Asimov the best scientist, with Clarke having the best balance. Also, I think there are a lot of better modern Science Fiction writers; the earlies get props for starting the genre, and are more memorable for their lack of competition, but they aren’t the be-all, end-all. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/48 "2010-12-06T19:52:09Z")
I voted for Heinlein, who has always given me reading pleasure. Asimov and Clarke, in that order, would closely follow, but Wells is even more dated now. I confess I haven’t read any Zelazny. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/49 "2010-12-07T01:03:46Z")
For shame! Start with “A Rose For Ecclesiastes”. Then read **Doorways in the Sand** and **Lord of Light.** Then you can start plowing through the Amberverse. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/50 "2010-12-07T01:50:12Z")
Y’know, I did read “A Rose for Ecclesiastes” a long time ago, I think. Maybe. Guess it didn’t leave me hungry for more. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/51 "2010-12-07T01:51:03Z")
I voted for Clarke as my sentimental favorite, but really should have voted for Wells. So, consider one of Clarke’s votes to be of the “hanging chad on a butterfly ballot” variety. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Just1Lurk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c0e974/32.png) [@Just1Lurk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just1Lurk)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/52 "2010-12-07T02:12:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I confess that, although I devoured his books as a teenager, as an adult I’ve only read two. **Foundation** is appallingly poorly written (fun game–spot the women! this is the one that convinced me he couldn’t write a female character to save his life), and **The Stars Like Dust** has a ridiculously hokey McGuffin whose nature I guessed in the first chapter and was all, “dude, please don’t let that be the McGuffin” and whose reveal in the book’s final sentence was like Asimov was the most patriotic stoner-philosopher ever. Duuuuuuude! It sucked. > > Maybe I should try his robot novels again; those are the ones I remember most fondly from my adolescence. Just thought you might like to know, **Left Hand** , that \*\*The Stars Like Dust \*\*was Asmiov’s least favorite novel, and he hated it for the same reason you do - he hated the whole idea of the McGuffin, which was added at the insistence of an editor. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/53 "2010-12-07T02:48:21Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Y’know, I did read “A Rose for Ecclesiastes” a long time ago, I think. Maybe. Guess it didn’t leave me hungry for more. Give **Doorways** a shot. It’s demented. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/54 "2010-12-07T04:53:46Z")
I **SERIOUSLY** question the validity of a poll taken on Thanksgiving Day and Black Friday. I know it’s Sci Fi, but you guys got to Unplug. OSC didn’t even get one vote? REALLY?! ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/55 "2010-12-07T19:18:16Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > OSC didn’t even get one vote? REALLY?! He couldn’t get a vote – he’s not one of the choices. (I presume you’re referring to Orson Scott Card?) ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/56 "2010-12-08T03:10:43Z")
[quote=“Gary “Wombat” Robson, post:55, topic:562452”] He couldn’t get a vote – he’s not one of the choices. (I presume you’re referring to Orson Scott Card?) [/QUOTE] I was speaking to the first round of voting, where indeed he was a candidate. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/57 "2010-12-08T04:19:10Z")
OSC as a Grand Master? In what universe? He’s a hack at best. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/58 "2010-12-08T04:39:25Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I was speaking to the first round of voting, where indeed he was a candidate. Ah, so your comment was meant for the other thread. Sorry, I misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/59 "2010-12-08T06:57:08Z")
I wouldn’t call Card a hack-- He’s won a few Hugos, and they were well-deserved. He’s still not in the same league as Heinlein or Asimov, though. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2010, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452/60 "2010-12-08T13:22:07Z")
Card’s best fiction was his fantasies anyway. The _Alvin Maker_ series was better than _Ender’s Game_ and the others. He is fine but in no way a Grand Master. He is not the best of his generation. He did not spearhead the exploration of a new area of science fiction. He did not establish any common tropes. His work simply built on the work of the Masters that came before him. This is not a slight, this is just to say he is not a serious Grand Master candidate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-master-of-science-fiction-the-final-conflict/562452.md?page=4)