# Grand Theft - Airplane **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 11, 2018, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419 "2018-08-11T05:23:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/41 "2018-08-12T20:18:02Z")
Well, what are you going to do? Forbid baggage handlers and cleaning staff from approaching an airplane? Seriously - it’s necessary that people do stuff to/around/on airplanes as part of the process of the maintaining them, servicing them, cleaning them, and so forth. The two things that stop people from stealing airplanes (more often) is that 1) most people don’t realize how easy it would be to do in some cases and 2) most people don’t want to steal airplanes. It’s really a rare impulse. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/42 "2018-08-12T20:47:01Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well, what are you going to do? Forbid baggage handlers and cleaning staff from approaching an airplane? > > Seriously - it’s necessary that people do stuff to/around/on airplanes as part of the process of the maintaining them, servicing them, cleaning them, and so forth. The two things that stop people from stealing airplanes (more often) is that 1) most people don’t realize how easy it would be to do in some cases and 2) most people don’t want to steal airplanes. It’s really a rare impulse. Maybe it’s an issue with airplane design, specifically with what’s necessary to power one up (and then fly it). It shouldn’t be as simple as pushing a button, or whatever it was that allowed the guy to start it up and take off. A key? A code that must be punched in? Something. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/43 "2018-08-12T21:37:03Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Maybe it’s an issue with airplane design, specifically with what’s necessary to power one up (and then fly it). It shouldn’t be as simple as pushing a button, or whatever it was that allowed the guy to start it up and take off. > > A key? A code that must be punched in? Something. It should be as simple as possible. I’m a pilot. When I go to work I have to start four engines four times each throughout the day. It already takes about three minutes to start four engines. When I’m given 30 minutes to turn the aircraft around and 10% of that turn around time is just starting engines, the last thing I want is for it to be more difficult. That he flew it isn’t really the point. The point is that he had access to it and wasn’t mentally stable. If he couldn’t fly it, who’s to say he wouldn’t have sabotaged it somehow? My general opinion on extremely rare events like this is that we don’t need to change anything. Do an investigation, see if there were any signs that were ignored or missed, but if that all comes up ok then we need to accept that we can’t have perfect defences against every eventuality. Sometimes shit happens. Sometimes people break and there is no reasonable way to foresee it happening. The last thing we should do is make it difficult to operate the plane. It’s where people work, their day to day office. We already have to put up with a bunch of crap every single day, just because one person, out of billions, did something stupid, once. Unfortunately the public will want “something to be done!”, and those in charge will want to appear to have done something, so some pointless new piece of bureaucracy will be put in place that will have zero effect on the actual problem. Normal people’s lives will be inconvenienced a little more on a daily basis, and because the problem event was so rare in the first place, it won’t happen again and the public will be appeased. This is how our lives are gradually being reduced to needlessly jumping through ever increasing numbers of hoops just to get through a normal day. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/44 "2018-08-12T21:40:47Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Pretty sweet barrel-roll! And yet every story I’ve read has described him doing ‘loop-the-loops’ _twitches_ Unless of course he really did do that but I haven’t seen any footage of them. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/45 "2018-08-12T21:53:16Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Isn’t scrambling fighters whenever there is a possible hijacking or suspicion of one SOP since 9/11? I was glad to see them up there myself. > And no matter how bad off the poor guy was, let’s give him credit for doing this by himself and not with a plane full of passengers like the guy in Germany. A Redditor from the r/Portland subreddit was out at the airport and took an [impressive pic](https://i.redd.it/mzqhqt8lagf11.jpg) of one of the F-15s scrambling to address the situation. There were multiple reports of sonic booms as the planes went hypersonic and it took them about ten minutes to cover the distance from PDX to Seattle. Pretty impressive. And yes, it’s fully armed with missiles and the like. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/46 "2018-08-12T22:01:58Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Makes me wonder what would have happened if he landed the thing. He did land it. And it blew up in the process. BTW, The Daily Mail is little more reliable than a supermarket tabloid. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/47 "2018-08-12T22:38:46Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Maybe it’s an issue with airplane design, specifically with what’s necessary to power one up (and then fly it). It shouldn’t be as simple as pushing a button, or whatever it was that allowed the guy to start it up and take off. > > A key? A code that must be punched in? Something. So… when a jet engine flames out in flight, do you want something the pilot can re-start quickly and simply, or do you want an elaborate song-and-dance with keys and codes? Let me help you with that: although it’s uncommon, having to re-start an engine in flight happens a LOT more often than someone stealing an airplane. We are approaching a point where increased security could become hazardous. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2018, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/48 "2018-08-12T22:39:43Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > … That he flew it isn’t really the point. The point is that he had access to it and wasn’t mentally stable. If he couldn’t fly it, who’s to say he wouldn’t have sabotaged it somehow? … That is certainly an inarguable point. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/49 "2018-08-13T00:12:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So… when a jet engine flames out in flight, do you want something the pilot can re-start quickly and simply, or do you want an elaborate song-and-dance with keys and codes? Hear her! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/50 "2018-08-13T02:43:40Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > A Redditor from the r/Portland subreddit was out at the airport and took an [impressive pic](https://i.redd.it/mzqhqt8lagf11.jpg) of one of the F-15s scrambling to address the situation. There were multiple reports of sonic booms as the planes went hypersonic and it took them about ten minutes to cover the distance from PDX to Seattle. Pretty impressive. And yes, it’s fully armed with missiles and the like. I would be impressed if an F-15 went hypersonic. A bit of a nit pic but that’s something like mach 5. Still, the first and only time I heard a sonic boom was on 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/51 "2018-08-13T04:11:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I would be impressed if an F-15 went hypersonic. A bit of a nit pic but that’s something like mach 5. Still, the first and only time I heard a sonic boom was on 9/11. Mach I is the speed of sound at sound in air, roughly 720mph. F-15s go 1600 mph, or Mach II. Twice the speed of sound. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/52 "2018-08-13T04:19:31Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > Mach I is the speed of sound at sound in air, roughly 720mph. F-15s go 1600 mph, or Mach II. Twice the speed of sound. Supersonic, not hypersonic. > **[Hypersonic speed](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_speed)** > > In aerodynamics, a hypersonic speed is one that exceeds five times the speed of sound, often stated as starting at speeds of Mach 5 and above. > The precise Mach number at which a craft can be said to be flying at hypersonic speed varies, since individual physical changes in the airflow (like molecular dissociation and ionization) occur at different speeds; these effects collectively become important around Mach 5-10. The hypersonic regime can also be alternatively defined as speeds where specif... ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/53 "2018-08-13T04:20:52Z")
Magiver knows this — and that _hypersonic_ means Mach 5, not relevant to this topic. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/54 "2018-08-13T04:49:11Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Magiver knows this — and that _hypersonic_ means Mach 5, not relevant to this topic. That was the nit he was picking. SmartAleq says the F15s went hyper, Magiver says ~I know I’m nitpicking, but no they didn’t. SmartAleq ~yeah they did, they can go Mach 2. I say, that’s supersonic, not hypersonic. ---
**Author:** ![chizzuk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e36b37/32.png) [@chizzuk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chizzuk)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/55 "2018-08-13T05:07:11Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So… when a jet engine flames out in flight, do you want something the pilot can re-start quickly and simply, or do you want an elaborate song-and-dance with keys and codes? > > Let me help you with that: although it’s uncommon, having to re-start an engine in flight happens a LOT more often than someone stealing an airplane. > > We are approaching a point where increased security could become hazardous. Didn’t we already sort of get to that point with the Germanwings crash? Measures to make the cockpit an impenetrable fortress allowed the suicidal co-pilot to fly the plane into the side of a mountain while the captain stood helplessly outside the door. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/56 "2018-08-13T07:21:10Z")
Yep, that’s basically what happened there. Sort of like how airbags in cars usually save lives but sometimes they kill people instead. You can’t make the world perfectly safe, so you have to look for compromises that work more often than not while realizing that sometimes safety or security measures can backfire. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/57 "2018-08-13T12:10:16Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/58 "2018-08-13T14:39:08Z")
Just saw the video; he was able to pull off some impressive flight time. It’s obviously sad for the individual and family involved. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/59 "2018-08-13T15:34:35Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > And yes, it’s fully armed with missiles and the like. That wasn’t [always](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/f-16-pilot-was-ready-to-give-her-life-on-sept-11/2015/09/06/7c8cddbc-d8ce-11e0-9dca-a4d231dfde50_story.html) the case. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419/60 "2018-08-13T16:08:24Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I also wouldn’t be surprised if he booby-trapped his home, like the Colorado theater shooter did. A curious assumption. James Holmes’ intent was to murder people. There is no indication Richard Russell wanted to harm anyone at all, although his actions suggest a certain incidental disregard for the people below him. Different mindsets entirely. Now if he’d nosedived into a terminal building or the local shopping mall… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grand-theft-airplane/819419.md?page=4)