# Granting asylum to people fleeing from Germany? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 1, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297 "2010-02-01T22:24:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/61 "2010-02-03T21:49:52Z")
I actually would like to adopt Germany’s anti-home-schooling law (or a modified version thereof). So where should they go if I were to succeed? ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/62 "2010-02-03T21:58:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If they’re going to school, no. Again you ignore the central question. Your assumption is that school-aged children need to be regularly inspected by the government. Younger-than-school-age do not. Adults do not. Do you not see the problem with your reasoning? Can you answer the questions I’ve presented? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/63 "2010-02-03T22:12:27Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > Again you ignore the central question. > > Your assumption is that school-aged children need to be regularly inspected by the government. Younger-than-school-age do not. Adults do not. > > Do you not see the problem with your reasoning? Can you answer the questions I’ve presented? The thing is, at least here in France, the “inspections” by the government have nothing to do with how the parents run their show or whatnot, and everything to do with making sure the kid is \*actually _being schooled (as opposed to just left to his own devices), and is actually learning basic, critical skills_ at a similar rate as that of “normal” public/private schooled kids. At that age, even a one-year lag can be severely crippling. Or are you arguing that if you want your child to be illiterate or don’t care that he is for whatever reason, then it’s your prerogative and the gummint has no business sticking its nose into yours ? - reading, writing, maths, textual comprehension, essay writing ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/64 "2010-02-03T22:36:00Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > The thing is, at least here in France, the “inspections” by the government have nothing to do with how the parents run their show or whatnot, and everything to do with making sure the kid is \*actually _being schooled (as opposed to just left to his own devices), and is actually learning basic, critical skills_ at a similar rate as that of “normal” public/private schooled kids. At that age, even a one-year lag can be severely crippling. > > Or are you arguing that if you want your child to be illiterate or don’t care that he is for whatever reason, then it’s your prerogative and the gummint has no business sticking its nose into yours ? The question is about power and how it is used. Parents have the responsibility to raise their children (including education, morals, etc.). The state has the responsibility of protecting children from abusive parents. Absent any evidence, it’s not the place of the state to go on a fishing evidence to find reasons to intercede between parents and children. Once you decide that you have to “inspect” homes to make sure children are learning (without any evidence), why can’t you inspect every home to make sure kids aren’t being abused? What about inspecting every home to make sure spouses aren’t being abused, etc.? ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/65 "2010-02-03T22:43:50Z")
The government has a responsibility to make sure children are adequately educated. All of society has an interest in an educated populace. Public, private and charter schools are all subject to inspection to ensure that the children are learning at a certain level. If you decide you are going to educate your children at home, then you should be subject to the same basic level of inspection. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/66 "2010-02-03T22:54:16Z")
> [@emarkp](#): > > The question is about power and how it is used. Parents have the responsibility to raise their children (including education, morals, etc.). The state has the responsibility of protecting children from abusive parents. Absent any evidence, it’s not the place of the state to go on a fishing evidence to find reasons to intercede between parents and children. I find these statements to be in contradiction. If the state is _responsible_ for protecting children from abuse, then it must have the right, nay, the duty to check up on kids under its responsibility. Can’t have one without the other, really. > [@](#): > > Once you decide that you have to “inspect” homes to make sure children are learning (without any evidence), why can’t you inspect every home to make sure kids aren’t being abused? What about inspecting every home to make sure spouses aren’t being abused, etc.? If there wasn’t any kind of oversight or regular testing, what evidence would there be of a home-schooled kid being taught fuck all ? I mean, sure, when the kid turns 18, has to find a job and it turns out he can’t read or count because his parents were insane, you’ve got your evidence. Fat load of good it does the kid _then_… ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/67 "2010-02-03T23:55:24Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I find these statements to be in contradiction. If the state is _responsible_ for protecting children from abuse, then it must have the right, nay, the duty to check up on kids under its responsibility. Can’t have one without the other, really. Not a contradiction, but rather in opposition. Other competing interests are addressed in the US by the 4th Amendment. You have a right to your property, and to not be searched. Unless there’s evidence to strongly suggest there’s a crime – evidence which can be obtained without violating those rights. And there’s judicial oversight to prevent abuse of the power to search. > [@](#): > > If there wasn’t any kind of oversight or regular testing, what evidence would there be of a home-schooled kid being taught fuck all ? I mean, sure, when the kid turns 18, has to find a job and it turns out he can’t read or count because his parents were insane, you’ve got your evidence. Fat load of good it does the kid _then_… Indeed, there may be no evidence. But just like a police officer can’t invade your home to check for wrongdoing, so shouldn’t the government be able to invade your home to see if your kids are ignorant. In fact, who is to decide what is an appropriate level of education? Our local schools are going to use “Everyday Math” to teach the kids in school, which means math education in the disctrict is now effectively worthless. Were a homeschooling family using that curriculum I’d argue that they weren’t being taught anything at all. Yet it’s what the district is using in the coming year. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/68 "2010-02-04T00:01:10Z")
What terrible reason for asylum. All the dying people in Haiti and other places must be shitting themselves hearing the news. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/69 "2010-02-04T00:16:20Z")
I found it amazing that ONLY 35 Germans even applied for asylum. I am not suggesting that Germany is a bad place that remotely deserves fleeing. What I am say is that out all those millions of Germans there I am amazed that there werent hundreds if not thousands of batshit crazy people applying for asylum for whatever batshit crazy reasons batshit crazy people have. Maybe batshit crazy Germans arent nearly as politically creative as I think they would be. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/70 "2010-02-04T00:44:13Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I hate my time \*out \*of school just as much. It’s not school that’s cruel, and disappointing, and unfair, and full of evil narrow-minded jerks. It’s life. I’m sorry to hear that. My life hasn’t turned out so bad. I haven’t had to deal with jerks since I left high school some thirty years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/71 "2010-02-04T15:30:28Z")
I think this has morphed in a question of what limits are reasonable to place on families who chose to homeschool. It’s an interesting question and one worthy of Great Debates (in my opinion) so I’ll try to come up with an appropriate OP and start a thread on that topic. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/72 "2010-02-04T16:28:33Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > That’s not quite what I meant. Right now, English homeschoolers are often writing somewhat anonymously because of the Badman stuff that’s going on. Quite a few of them are preparing to engage in some civil disobedience, refuse to comply with the new law, or leave the country if it passes–[like this woman here](http://freedomineducationunderthreat.blogspot.com/) (don’t you love her Educational Anarchist image? I have a t-shirt like that). So they’re not giving out a lot of names. What am I supposed to be looking at? It’s a blog. Perhaps she’s mentally ill, misinformed, or just an over-reacting idiot. Link to the Badman report, please, and the government white papers where it’s actually detailed what’s going on. > [@](#): > > It’s interesting that you assume that home edders give their children substandard education. (Especially since what I’ve been reading about education in the UK for the past few years is depressing beyond words; it really makes me very discouraged.) Home educators are a diverse bunch and they aren’t even all fundamentalists, despite what you may assume. So they’re not _all_ fundamentalists. But some are, by _your_ admission. By your own words, some are homeschooling kids because their religious idiocy dictates that they prevent their offspring from learning about evolution, sex education, or whatever. Precisely why home inspections for home schoolers are necessary to protect the unfortunates and ensure they’re sticking to the National Curriculum. Pray tell, though, **dangermom** , what have you been reading about British education standards? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297/73 "2010-02-04T21:25:06Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > German citizens have the automatic right to settle in the UK. Their kids would have the same rights as any other child and, after a few months, the parents would have the exact same rights as British citizens too (like access to state funds)… But the UK presumably doesn’t have millions of like-minded conservative Christians the way the U.S. does, and nowhere more so than in the Deep South. Which in my opinion makes it hard to deny a religious and cultural aspect to the matter; we’re welcoming the most socially conservative representatives of the German population, while more mainstream, avant-garde, or left-wing political types have a harder time getting in, that is if there still are any who try. Having fairly leftist political views myself and believing that religion has no place in politics or government, I’m not sure these are the immigrants I would most like to see coming here and dragging the country further to the right. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/granting-asylum-to-people-fleeing-from-germany/527297.md?page=3)