# Grape Koolaid a farce? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 15, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906 "2012-02-15T05:58:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/41 "2012-02-16T01:58:01Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Other things that started out as trademarks but became generic: kerosene, dry ice, zipper, windbreaker . . . and elevator, escalator, refrigerator . . . The damage to the Kool-Aid (Kool-Ade?) folks, due to the bad-imaging, must be immense. Today, the very phrase “Kool-Aid” is nigh synonymous with anything deceptively toxic – often used metaphorically to refer to a noxious belief or ideology. So, yeah, I think the Kool-Aid folks must have really cared about what has happened to their brand name. Article from L. A. Times: [Daum: Don't 'drink the Kool-Aid'](http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/17/opinion/la-oe-daum-koolaid-20111117) Jonestown wasn’t the only influence. There was also Ken Kesey and Tom Wolfe with their LSD Kool-Aid parties and Wolfe’s book on the subject [The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test](http://www.tomwolfe.com/KoolAid.html) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/42 "2012-02-16T03:42:07Z")
Dewey Finn writes: \> If we’re going to nitpick, note that the “comet cult” was Heaven’s Gate. Incidentally, the Heaven’s Gate cult trademarked the use of the Hale-Bopp Comet as a refuge for a suicide cult. If you want to create a cult that will commit mass suicide so that you can all be transported to a spaceship behind a comet, you have to use a different comet than Hale-Bopp. The Heaven’s Gate people have exclusive rights to that comet. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/43 "2012-02-16T04:01:07Z")
How would they enforce it? They committed suicide. Anyway I doubt that they can exercise exclusive rights in the concept of … What is it? … Spiritual refuge in a comet. In fact, I’m almost certain they can’t stop another commit-suicide-and-ride-Hale-Bopp cult from operating. It’s simply not a trademark use. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/44 "2012-02-16T04:40:07Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > The damage to the Kool-Aid (Kool-Ade?) folks, due to the bad-imaging, must be immense. Today, the very phrase “Kool-Aid” is nigh synonymous with anything deceptively toxic – often used metaphorically to refer to a noxious belief or ideology. So, yeah, I think the Kool-Aid folks must have really cared about what has happened to their brand name. I think what hurt kool-aid even more were all of the living room walls busted down by that rogue pitcher of kool-aid (and he was even smiling that whole time, like he didn’t even care about the damage). ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/45 "2012-02-16T05:02:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > How would they enforce it? They committed suicide. > > Anyway I doubt that they can exercise exclusive rights in the concept of … What is it? … Spiritual refuge in a comet. In fact, I’m almost certain they can’t stop another commit-suicide-and-ride-Hale-Bopp cult from operating. It’s simply not a trademark use. That and Hale-Bopp won’t be back again for about 2500 years. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/46 "2012-02-16T19:18:59Z")
> [@Mr.Accident](#): > > Here in GA it is. When I worked in fast food and retail, I was asked what kind of cokes we sell, and it was a general catch all for coke, pepsi, and generic soda products. I’ve lived in Georgia for 20 years, and I’ve never, ever heard the phrase “what kind if coke do you want” uttered. Maybe if someone didn’t know if you preferred diet, but probably not even then. What I do hear all the time is “Can I get you a Coke or something?” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/47 "2012-02-16T20:18:06Z")
As for the usage of “coke” for cola,[this map](http://popvssoda.com/countystats/total-county.html) indicates where it’s used. ---
**Author:** ![iftheresaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ecae2f/32.png) [@iftheresaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iftheresaway)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/48 "2012-02-16T20:34:37Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > So, “Coke” is a generic word in the city it was invented. Fancy that. 😉 > > Next thing you tell me, “Budweiser” is generic for “beer” in St Louis. Don’t be silly. The generic for beer in STL is “Bud Light”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/49 "2012-02-16T20:47:30Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > As for the usage of “coke” for cola,[this map](http://popvssoda.com/countystats/total-county.html) indicates where it’s used. Most of us aren’t disputing that we use Coke as a generic term in the way I listed above. People tend to take it a little farther, and believe that we use the term “Coke” to refer to other, specific drinks. ---
**Author:** ![Vicullum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/6de8d8/32.png) [@Vicullum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicullum)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/50 "2012-02-16T21:37:31Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > In Texas, “Coke” is an all-purpose name for any soft drink. > > And any Texan will tell you it’s common to hear conversations like this: > > Hostess: You want a Coke? > > Guest: Sure! > > Hostess: What kind? > > Guest: 7-Up I lived in Texas most my life, and I’ve near heard anyone use “coke” as a generic term for all soft drinks. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/51 "2012-02-17T04:25:20Z")
> [@Vicullum](#): > > I lived in Texas most my life, and I’ve near heard anyone use “coke” as a generic term for all soft drinks. I heard it growing up, but I wonder if it’s generational thing. My grandparents, who would be 90ish if they were still alive, used “soda water” as the generic term, while my parents used Coke as a catch-all for all sodas. I did it myself growing up, though I’ve largely stopped. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/52 "2012-02-17T23:59:03Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > We’ve done this before. The fact is that we don’t know what it was. There was footage at the time showing both Kool-Aid and Flavor-Aid in the compound. Official reports were vague. It may well have been Kool-Aid, we just don;t know for sure. You mean none of the investigators afterwards tasted it to find out? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/53 "2012-02-18T00:04:06Z")
The people I know that use coke for items other than Coca-Cola or it’s knockoffs don’t quite use it as a generic term like soda or pop. They use it specifically for the brown and/or cola variety. In other words, Pepsi is a coke, but Sprite is not. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/54 "2012-02-18T01:28:18Z")
The San Francisco Chronicle, for one, reported it as being “purple Kool-Aid” at the time. [Front page from Nov. 21, 1978](http://imgs.sfgate.com/chronicle/acrobat/2008/11/12/Jonestown_11-21-1978.pdf). Doesn’t mean that’s necessarily correct, but they were unlikely to have been the only source saying Kool-Aid. ---
**Author:** ![FrustratedIdiot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/77aa72/32.png) [@FrustratedIdiot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FrustratedIdiot)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/55 "2012-02-18T02:40:26Z")
Some say it was murder: [http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/JonestownReport/Volume8/forumCarter.htm](http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/JonestownReport/Volume8/forumCarter.htm) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/56 "2012-02-18T02:45:15Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Yes, it was Flavor-Aid, not Kool-Aid. Even suicidal comet cults need to watch their budgets. > [@panamajack](#): > > The San Francisco Chronicle, for one, reported it as being “purple Kool-Aid” at the time. [Front page from Nov. 21, 1978](http://imgs.sfgate.com/chronicle/acrobat/2008/11/12/Jonestown_11-21-1978.pdf). > Doesn’t mean that’s necessarily correct, but they were unlikely to have been the only source saying Kool-Aid. As the evidence showed on the previous thread, the surprising answer is that \*\*both \*\* Flavor-Aid and Kool-Aid were in the Jim Jones compound. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/57 "2012-02-18T06:18:57Z")
Forget Kool-Aid and Coke, how about the OP’s use of the word “FARCE” in the thread title. What’s with that? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/58 "2012-02-18T06:33:22Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > Forget Kool-Aid and Coke, how about the OP’s use of the word “FARCE” in the thread title. What’s with that? I thought the thread was going to be about the odd American racial stereotype of black people drinking grape soda/koolaid. I was actually asked to explain that due to movies and shows having the joke, and I couldn’t even explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/59 "2012-02-18T07:10:15Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I thought the thread was going to be about the odd American racial stereotype of black people drinking grape soda/koolaid. > > I was actually asked to explain that due to movies and shows having the joke, and I couldn’t even explain it. I’ve never heard of that. Can you give some more info? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2012, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906/60 "2012-02-18T08:46:14Z")
> [@Accidental\_Martyr](#): > > I’ve never heard of that. Can you give some more info? [http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/02/stereotype-of-african-americans-kool.html](http://pancocojams.blogspot.com/2012/02/stereotype-of-african-americans-kool.html) Covers the issue pretty well, best guess is it is a round about insult saying black people are poor but that doesn’t explain the grape flavor. > [@](#): > > However, I think there are other reasons besides that product being inexpensive why many Americans (including Black Americans) may associate Kool-Aid flavored drink with Black folks. One of those reasons is that that company appears to have made a strategic marketing decision to target Black people in its ads. Note that the uploader of the video on the top of this page wrote that “I remember seeing this commercial every Saturday during Soul Train lol.” Soul Train was a very popular music/dance show that featured mostly Black dancers and guest recording stars. However, it wasn’t just Black people who watched that show. Soul Train’s large audiences of Black people and non-Black people may have favorable rememberances of those ads because of their airing during that well loved show, but also because those ads favorably depicted Black people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grape-koolaid-a-farce/612906.md?page=4)