# Graphology **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 16, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751 "2014-11-16T04:16:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/1 "2014-11-16T04:16:27Z")
I believe that graphology has the capacity to be of scientific value, similar in many ways to how we study body language. I also believe that the large majority of those who practice this are ill informed and unqualified. I have not studied it myself but have had some exposure to it and I am convinced that it should not be written off as woo. I am not up to date on it’s advancements but my money would be on it gradually becomming more and more acceptable as our ability to analyze data gets better and better. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/2 "2014-11-16T04:25:55Z")
That’s nice. I don’t ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/3 "2014-11-16T04:29:42Z")
The skeptical to go site for many fringe ideas is IMHO the Skeptic’s Dictionary, and their report is not kind to Graphology: [http://skepdic.com/graphol.html](http://skepdic.com/graphol.html) > [@](#): > > Graphologists, or graphoanalyists, examine loops, dotted “i’s” and crossed “t’s,” letter spacing, slants, heights, ending strokes, upslant pressure, downslant pressure, etc., but they believe that such handwriting minutiae are physical manifestations of unconscious mental functions. Graphologists believe such details can reveal as much about a person as astrology , palm reading, psychometry, rumpology, or the Myers-Briggs personality type indicator. However, there is no evidence that the unconscious mind is a reservoir of truth about a person, much less that graphology provides a gateway to that reservoir. > > Graphology is claimed to be useful for everything from understanding health issues, morality and past experiences to hidden talents and mental problems.\* However, “in properly controlled, blind studies, where the handwriting samples contain no content that could provide non-graphological information upon which to base a prediction (e.g., a piece copied from a magazine), graphologists do no better than chance at predicting… personality traits…” [“The Use of Graphology as a Tool for Employee Hiring and Evaluation,” from the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association] And even non-experts are able to correctly identify the gender of a writer about 70% of the time (Furnham, 204). > > There are a variety of techniques used by graphologists.\* Even so, the techniques of these “experts” seem to be reducible to impressions from such things as the pressure exerted on the page, spacing of words and letters, crossed t’s, dotted i’s, size, slant, speed and consistency of writing. Though graphologists deny it, the content of the writing is one of the more important factors in graphological character assessment. The content of a message, of course, is independent of the handwriting and should be irrelevant to the assessment. > [@](#): > > Adrian Furnham writes: > > > [@](#): > > > > ``` > > Readers familiar with the techniques of cold reading will be able to understand why graphology appears to work and why so many (otherwise intelligent) people believe in it. [p. 204] > > > > ``` > > Add to cold reading, the Barnum effect, confirmation bias, communal reinforcement, the Forer effect, and subjective validation and you have a fairly complete explanation for graphology’s popularity. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/4 "2014-11-16T05:07:30Z")
As I said in the OP the great majority of those who I have seen practice this are highly unqualified. My mother did it strictly as a hobby and was popular at parties for her skills. For obvious reasons she tended to stay with positive attributes but would often warn my father of specific traits she saw in someones handwriting that were more often than not borne out to be true. She spent a lifetime studying it but I know a big part of her studies were based on studying the handwriting of those she knew very well and then recognizing similar traits in others expressed by similar handwriting characterisics. She claimed only some ability to recognize personality traits and would often sugest someone might be good at certain types of careers. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/5 "2014-11-16T05:17:45Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > As I said in the OP the great majority of those who I have seen practice this are highly unqualified. Indeed, and that points to the overall reason why this not being accepted where it counts: there is no useful theory as to how graphology might work, as in the case you report the graphologist knew their subjects really well, so stands to reason to think that a lot of the successes there are related to other fields like Psychology rather than Graphology. > [@](#): > > Barry Beyerstein (1996) considers many of the notions of graphologists to be little more than sympathetic magic, e.g., the notion that leaving wide spaces between letters indicates a proneness to isolation and loneliness because the wide spaces indicate someone who does not mix easily and is uncomfortable with closeness. One graphologist claims that a person betrays his sadistic nature if he crosses his t’s with lines that look like whips. > > **Since there is no useful theory as to how graphology might work** , it is not surprising that there is no empirical evidence that any graphological characteristics significantly correlate with any interesting personality trait. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/6 "2014-11-16T05:35:18Z")
The only useful theory behind it that I can see is that similar personality traits have been shown to express similar handwriting traits. I have only met a handful of graphologists in my life and was honestly only impressed by my own mother. She was an extremely intelligent woman and very objective in most of areas of her life. She lived over 90 years and the last 50 or so became more and more intense with her studies and research of her own. She wasn’t very impressed with the available books on the subject but saw enough in them to feel that it could be a viable science. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/7 "2014-11-16T06:00:39Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > The only useful theory behind it that I can see is that similar personality traits have been shown to express similar handwriting traits. I have only met a handful of graphologists in my life and was honestly only impressed by my own mother. She was an extremely intelligent woman and very objective in most of areas of her life. She lived over 90 years and the last 50 or so became more and more intense with her studies and research of her own. She wasn’t very impressed with the available books on the subject but saw enough in them to feel that it could be a viable science. The problem here is that if (and this is a big if) there was indeed something special found by your mother then it is unfortunate that this was not published, the thing is that for science how to replicate something is key, if there is no good information published then one has to go for what was found so far, and Neuroscientists like Barry Beyerstein explain how dismal the evidence is (Here he complains against the use of Graphology to screen future employees): [http://www.pbs.org/safarchive/3\_ask/archive/qna/3282\_bbeyerstein.html](http://www.pbs.org/safarchive/3_ask/archive/qna/3282_bbeyerstein.html) > [@](#): > > Also, there are provisions in some jurisdictions against using personnel selection procedures that discriminate against women, visible minorities, etc. Graphology passes on this requirement **because it works equally badly for everyone**. Other than that, in both the US and Canada, in the private sector, there is very little to prevent a believer from using graphology, astrology, tea leaf reading, or any other equally-discredited method for choosing employees, marriage partners, or loan grantees. > > To answer the question directly, I think it is highly unethical to use a procedure that has failed numerous fair scientific tests of its validity, especially where important decisions are being made that could result in an unfair advantage or disadvantage to anyone. I have not seen any good evidence after more than ten years for the scientists to report otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/8 "2014-11-16T06:25:03Z")
I find it \*conceivable \*that there is something in it. \*Maybe \*a detailed professional study would show personality traits reflected in handwriting. Maybe it will in the future. Or maybe a detailed study will prove no correlation between handwriting and personality. However, no such study has taken place _yet_. Graphologists are either kidding themselves, or committing a deliberate fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/9 "2014-11-16T06:32:35Z")
Maybe a “weak” version? Certainly, some things show in handwriting – such as when one is writing in a hurry vs. when one is taking time to write carefully. It isn’t absolute bunkum to suspect that some aspects of personality might be evident, if only on a very gross kind of scale. You just wouldn’t be able to discern fine details of personality. (Hey, Sherlock Holmes could do it, so it has to be valid!) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SDarbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@SDarbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SDarbo)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/10 "2014-11-16T06:47:16Z")
I’ve wondered if people who do linguistic and psychological assessments of threats have any tendency to try to determine anything from penmanship. Even if they once did take some penmanship traits as markers that were of possible meaning they like don’t do it much anymore because very little is communicated in handwriting anymore. I know very few people under thirty that write any notes in cursive anymore. Building up a scientific graphanaysis,were it possible, might be like creating a database of identifying psychological types based on their preferences regarding eighties popular music. Its an endeavor that would be ever dwindling in usefulness imo. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/11 "2014-11-16T08:21:00Z")
It seems to me that how people cross their 't’s and dot their 'i’s has more to do with what their 1st-grade teacher taught them back in the day than anything to do with their personality. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/12 "2014-11-16T08:52:23Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It seems to me that how people cross their 't’s and dot their 'i’s has more to do with what their 1st-grade teacher taught them back in the day than anything to do with their personality. And yet many people who had the same teacher will still show marked differences in their writing styles. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/13 "2014-11-16T09:02:51Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > As I said in the OP the great majority of those who I have seen practice this are highly unqualified. My mother did it strictly as a hobby and was popular at parties for her skills. For obvious reasons she tended to stay with positive attributes but would often warn my father of specific traits she saw in someones handwriting that were more often than not borne out to be true. She spent a lifetime studying it but I know a big part of her studies were based on studying the handwriting of those she knew very well and then recognizing similar traits in others expressed by similar handwriting characterisics. She claimed only some ability to recognize personality traits and would often sugest someone might be good at certain types of careers. There is no evidence, at all, that graphology has anything to recommend it. Your anecdote, even though it refers to your mother, is worthless I’m afraid. Without properly conducted, double blind, controlled studies we can’t say that there is anything to it all and to the best of my knowledge there are any such studies that back it up. Your mother was probably relying on prior knowledge of people, interaction with the people, and the Barnum effect. That’s not to say she was a fraud, just that she was human. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/14 "2014-11-16T09:34:10Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > And yet many people who had the same teacher will still show marked differences in their writing styles. Probably because their parents helped them with their homework. Writing style is like an accent - it’s something you pick up from your surroundings. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/15 "2014-11-16T11:00:31Z")
How do you feel about reading body language? Even animals can read body language to some extent. . I see handwriting as an extended form of body language with much more potential for revealing mind sets. When we listen to a persons voice we hear a tone, a pitch, a rythmn all these same characteristics can come through in handwriting. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/16 "2014-11-16T11:54:29Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > When we listen to a persons voice we hear a tone, a pitch, a rythmn all these same characteristics can come through in handwriting. There is zero evidence of this and frankly I don’t believe it one bit. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/17 "2014-11-16T12:27:01Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I believe that graphology has the capacity to be of scientific value, similar in many ways to how we study body language. OK…on what information or data is this belief based? > [@](#): > > I have not studied it myself > … > I am not up to date on it’s advancements Ah. Nothing at all. I see. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/18 "2014-11-16T12:59:21Z")
Certainly there tends to be a difference in the way men and women write, so it’s not unreasonable to assume you could extract some other information also. But it’s kinda an old fashioned concept anyway. Few young people nowadays get enough practise writing that they develop their own style. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/19 "2014-11-16T13:15:54Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > As I said in the OP the great majority of those who I have seen practice this are highly unqualified. Funny, that’s what my dad says about dowsing. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2014, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751/20 "2014-11-16T13:29:02Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Certainly there tends to be a difference in the way men and women write, so it’s not unreasonable to assume you could extract some other information also. But it’s kinda an old fashioned concept anyway. Few young people nowadays get enough practise writing that they develop their own style. Hell, I’m not young, and the only things I’ve written by hand the past ten years or so are shopping lists and checks. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/graphology/704751.md?page=2)