# Grated Cheese And Ground Pepper: When Did This Become A Luxury In Restaurants?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [March 19, 2006, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988 "2006-03-19T11:02:11Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/21 "2006-03-20T00:07:38Z")
Individual delivery of fresh pepper was discussed in GQ sometime ago. My parents tell me that the practice became common in NJ in the 1980s.
But **samclem** (IIRC) pulled out a NYC news article commenting on the practice from in the early 1960s. I suspect that was the time of the initial innovation.
It’s an odd ritual, one that makes both server and served feel like jackasses. I wonder what other anthropological curiosities share this trait.
(Delivering grated cheese in this way, OTOH, makes more sense to me.)
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### Author:  [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/22 "2006-03-20T00:21:35Z")
GQ thread below, complete with remarks by various curmudgeons.
The news article was from 1958: see samclem’s last post here:
> **[Fresh ground pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=349979)**
>
> In the nicer restaurants, a waiter will bring around a big wooden pepper grinder and offer to grind pepper on your salad. What is the origin of this custom? Why not just have a little wooden pepper grinder on the table with the salt? My guess is...
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### Author:  [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/23 "2006-03-20T04:15:17Z")
> [@wolfman](#):
>
> The same thing with made at the table Ceasar salad.
Actually, IIRC this is how a Caesar salad is supposed to be made – at the table, in front of the diners, in a large bowl.
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### Author:  [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/24 "2006-03-20T04:47:34Z")
Not to mention, I’ve always found that made at the table Caesar is much better than kitchen-sitting-in, premade Caesar. Generally, big vats of the stuff have to be kept cold, which just isn’t as good tasting as room temp. But that’s just me.
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### Author:  [@Bambi\_Hassenpfeffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambi_Hassenpfeffer)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/25 "2006-03-20T05:54:27Z")
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> Your figures are right, but your calculations went the wrong way.
>
> 1 kilo = 2.2 pounds.
>
> That means $A50 per kilo = $A50/2.2 per pound
>
> That’s $A22.73 per pound.
>
> $A1 is worth US78.3c
>
> So to get the amount in US dollars we multiply 22.73 by .783.
>
> The result is $US17.80 per pound.
Offtopic a little bit, but don’t kill yourself doing it by hand when you can just Google it: “50 aud per kg in usd per lb” results in [this page](http://www.google.com/search?hs=hRX&hl=en&lr=&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=50+aud+per+kg+in+usd+per+lb&btnG=Search), where you can see Google has decided that AUD50 / kg = USD16.58 / lb
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### Author:  [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/26 "2006-03-20T08:34:27Z")
Mnay years ago I was in a nice neigborhood trattoria in Rome. There were these load-mouth Americans that wanted cheese on something and called over the waiter. The waiter sprinkled a little on, but the customer just kept asking for more and more. Finally the waiter dumped about a cup of grated cheese on the dish. The customer looked shocked and the waiter gave us a little wink
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### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/27 "2006-03-20T09:22:42Z")
> [@DanBlather](#):
>
> Mnay years ago I was in a nice neigborhood trattoria in Rome. There were these load-mouth Americans that wanted cheese on something and called over the waiter. The waiter sprinkled a little on, but the customer just kept asking for more and more. Finally the waiter dumped about a cup of grated cheese on the dish. The customer looked shocked and the waiter gave us a little wink
Mmmm, sounds about right! I looooove cheese! 😃
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### Author:  [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/28 "2006-03-20T09:51:21Z")
I was surprised to notice the other day that Outback Steakhouse (NOT fancy) has little peppermills on every table.
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### Author:  [@susan\_foster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan_foster)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/29 "2006-03-20T13:09:54Z")
> [@Annie](#):
>
> Can I also include the “Dressing the Potato” ritual in this rant? I am somewhat skeeved by the wait-human flitting about from table to table with an open container of tater fixings, dangling it in the face of possibly post nasal drippy and/or say-it-AND-spray it- diners. The difference between 15% and 20% is based more on how many beer runs I request from the server than obsequious service tableaux.
Now this is one I’ve never seen. Are you talking about sour cream here? And where was this done?
Susan
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/30 "2006-03-20T15:43:39Z")
> [@Eleusis](#):
>
> I was surprised to notice the other day that Outback Steakhouse (NOT fancy) has little peppermills on every table.
Surprising, and I bet it’s a practice that goes away quick. As **Turek** said, things like that tend to find their way into handbags. As restaurants tend to operate on thin profit margins, most simply cannot afford to give away kitchenware.
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### Author:  [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/31 "2006-03-20T16:13:03Z")
> [@tdn](#):
>
> Surprising, and I bet it’s a practice that goes away quick. As **Turek** said, things like that tend to find their way into handbags.
Texas Land and Cattle Company has had pepper mills on tables for as long as I have gone to their restaurants. Based on the GQ thread about this, I asked the hostess if theft of the pepper mills was a problem. She said that occasionally they turn up missing, but it wasn’t that big of a problem.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/32 "2006-03-20T17:44:55Z")
I read an article a few years ago claiming that theft from restaurants are becoming epidemic. Perfectly law abiding citizens think it’s cute to steal silverware, napkins, cups. This, the article claimed, is why they have the poor jerk running around with the pepper grinder – so you can’t steal it. And good restaurants are increasingly moving to cheaper tableware.
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### Author:  [@UncleBeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBeer)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/33 "2006-03-20T17:56:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> And good restaurants are increasingly moving to cheaper tableware.
More’s the pity. I hate those flimsy little utensils. Even more so when they don’t match. One of my personal gauges of restaurant quality is the flatware.
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### Author:  [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/34 "2006-03-20T17:59:04Z")
> [@Annie](#):
>
> Now I have the urge to go to La Pasta Pompous and when buddy comes over with the cheese grater, keep saying “…yeah, more…more please…little more…not yet…” and see if I can get a kilo. If the grater runs dry, well, go fill it up again!
😛 I think this was one of the “Aaah, the power of cheese” print ads: A standard plate of spaghetti with a MOUND of parm that took up 80% of the ad space. [ilovecheese.com](http://ilovecheese.com)
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/35 "2006-03-20T18:02:10Z")
> [@adam yax](#):
>
> She said that occasionally they turn up missing, but it wasn’t that big of a problem.
Huh. Perhaps restaurants fear the loss out of proportion to the reality of it. Or that particular place has a classier clientel than most places.
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/36 "2006-03-20T18:06:57Z")
> [@Johnny Angel](#):
>
> I read an article a few years ago claiming that theft from restaurants are becoming epidemic. Perfectly law abiding citizens think it’s cute to steal silverware, napkins, cups. This, the article claimed, is why they have the poor jerk running around with the pepper grinder – so you can’t steal it. And good restaurants are increasingly moving to cheaper tableware.
That’s bizarre. It would never even occur to me to nick stuff from my restaurant table. This is not because i’m an especially morally upright person (although i am :)), but because stealing napkins and forks and pepper mills just seems so fucking lame.
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### Author:  [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/37 "2006-03-20T18:23:07Z")
> [@mhendo](#):
>
> stealing napkins and forks and pepper mills just seems so fucking lame.
There are a lot of lame people in this world. And some of them are planning dinner parties.
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### Author:  [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/38 "2006-03-20T19:31:21Z")
[My secret life as a restaurant thief](http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,9950,1342284,00.html)
[And the Diner Ran Away With the Spoon](http://www.restaurant.org/rusa/magArticle.cfm?ArticleID=117)
[What A Steal!](http://pizzatoday.com/frontofthehouse_articles.shtml?article=MzM2NnN1cGVyMzM2M3NlY3JldDMzNzA=)
Basically, if it ain’t nailed down, it’s walkin’ out the door.
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### Author:  [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/39 "2006-03-20T19:51:04Z")
> [@tdn](#):
>
> Or that particular place has a classier clientel than most places.
Well, I eat there. Make of that what you will 😃
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### Author:  [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)
#### Post date: [March 20, 2006, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/grated-cheese-and-ground-pepper-when-did-this-become-a-luxury-in-restaurants/348988/40 "2006-03-20T22:09:03Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#):
>
> [My secret life as a restaurant thief](http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodmonthly/story/0,9950,1342284,00.html)
> [And the Diner Ran Away With the Spoon](http://www.restaurant.org/rusa/magArticle.cfm?ArticleID=117)
> [What A Steal!](http://pizzatoday.com/frontofthehouse_articles.shtml?article=MzM2NnN1cGVyMzM2M3NlY3JldDMzNzA=)
>
> Basically, if it ain’t nailed down, it’s walkin’ out the door.
Excellent articles, especially the second one.
It really is a conundrum, because if you confront the thieves you end up losing a customer. Of course, some will argue that a business shouldn’t worry about losing thieving customers, but when theft is so prevalent, confronting every offender could end up putting a place out of business. It becomes a question of whether causing a fuss is more detrimental to the bottom line than losing some of your fixtures.
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