# Gravitists vs Downists **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 5, 2000, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758 "2000-10-05T12:59:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/1 "2000-10-05T12:59:30Z")
OK, it’s time to have it out for once and for all. These Gravitists keep arguing in for their theory of gravity. It’s time to point out: (1) It’s only a “theory” of gravity, and there are many other possible theories. For example, we know that things fall down just because it’s down (Theory of Downism) and that has equal weight (ahem) with the theory of gravity. (2) There are lots of things that the theory of gravity fail to explain. For instance, the absence of dinosaur puke in the fossil record. If the earth is really spinning around so fast, then creatures on the earth would feel dizzy and hurl. The absence of dinosaur vomit in geological findings is clear evidence that the earth is not now, nor never has, rotated. (3) The Bible clearly says that exiles will be gathered from the four corners of the earth. The gravitists claim there aren’t four corners, that the earth is sorta vaguely round. Hah! But that theory is disproved by the Bible. (4) If gravity really worked, the earth would be a perfect sphere. But even the gravitists say it’s kinda a squished sphere. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/2 "2000-10-05T13:06:49Z")
You forgot that Einsteinian physics disproves Newtonian physics, therefore the Theory of Gravity has been disproven by Einstein himself. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/3 "2000-10-05T13:10:46Z")
Yeah - and if the theory of “gravity” is so good, where are the missing links? If I attract stuff, it should all be linked to me. Of course I accept that _micro_-gravity may be true. pan ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/4 "2000-10-05T13:25:42Z")
Dex, I am offended and dumbfounded that you would ignore us Suckists, who believe that things fall down because the Earth sucks. ---
**Author:** ![headshok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@headshok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/headshok)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/5 "2000-10-05T13:35:29Z")
Why do they call it the “law” of gravity, like it’s been proven? You can’t see gravity, can you? Huh? Huh? Can you? And what are the odds that the gravitational force exerted by one object on another object just _happens_ to decrease with the square of the distance between those two objects? Why the square? There are an infinite amount of numbers; it could have been cubed or fourthed or 6678576thed or anything instead of squared. I’ve heard that the odds that it would be the square of the distance have been calculated to be 1/(the biggest number ever). And, if it were anything else besides squared we wouldn’t be around now. Therefore God decided it was squared. QED. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/6 "2000-10-05T13:47:18Z")
Suckism? I can’t believe that anybody still believes that! I mean - how do you explain the fact that sometimes the Earth blows? ---
**Author:** ![Trout\_Mask\_Replica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@Trout\_Mask\_Replica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trout_Mask_Replica)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/7 "2000-10-05T13:52:13Z")
Gravitism leads to moral turpitude. If we are nothing more than falling objects, then why is it bad to, say, push people off of subway platforms? Furthermore, did you know that Isaac Newton renounced gravitism on his deathbed? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/8 "2000-10-05T14:02:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > \*\*Yeah - and if the theory of “gravity” is so good, where are the missing links? If I attract stuff, it should all be linked to me. > > Of course I accept that _micro_-gravity may be true. > > pan \*\* I’ve always wondered this. If the Moon, which is one-sixth the mass of the Earth, orits the Earth, why isn’t my monitor whirling around me? (This, I am sure everyone would agree, would be really cool.) ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/9 "2000-10-05T14:10:17Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. It’s only a “theory” of gravity, and there are many other possible theories. For example, we know that things fall down just because it’s down (Theory of Downism) and that has equal weight (ahem) with the theory of gravity. Feh. Downism failed when it was unable to explain why you can’t get down off an elephant. As for **pldennison** ’s even more fanciful “Theory of Suckism,” I would _love_ to hear an explanation of why attraction decreases with the square of the distance, while everyone knows that the earth sucks equally at all distances. “Suckism” indeed. > [@](#): > > (2) There are lots of things that the theory of gravity fail to explain. For instance, the absence of dinosaur puke in the fossil record. If the earth is really spinning around so fast, then creatures on the earth would feel dizzy and hurl. The absence of dinosaur vomit in geological findings is clear evidence that the earth is not now, nor never has, rotated. Have you _ever_ read a science text? Velikovsky proved that the spin rate increased dramatically after Venus made its pass. That said, Dinosaur Puke does exist. Right now, a barrel of West Texas Intermediate Dinosaur Puke goes for about 32 bucks. > [@](#): > > (3) The Bible clearly says that exiles will be gathered from the four corners of the earth. The gravitists claim there aren’t four corners, that the earth is sorta vaguely round. Hah! But that theory is disproved by the Bible. Wow. You have to read your own sources more closely, **dex**. Even biblical literalists have a story to coincide with the Venus passing. The Lord _changed the shape of the earth_. “And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.” Lk, 2.9 > [@](#): > > (4) If gravity really worked, the earth would be a perfect sphere. But even the gravitists say it’s kinda a squished sphere. ::sigh:: I’ll try this again, for the benefit of lurkers who may be coming across this canard for the first time. The earth has gravity, but so does everything else. The earth _used_ to be a sphere, but it got pulled out of place. The problem has gotten more pronounced in recent years. How do you think we made the measurements to determine squishiness? Satellites, that’s how. And what do you think those satellites are doing? That’s right. They are pulling on the earth with their gravity. So the more satellites, the more squishiness. It’s a self-proving theory. ---
**Author:** ![Kyberneticist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kyberneticist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyberneticist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/10 "2000-10-05T14:10:58Z")
It might be interesting to set up miniature solar systems in microgravity… Would a ping-pong ball orbit a basketball in the shuttle if set up right? Or would there be too much “noise” from all the other massive stuff around? ---
**Author:** ![Kyberneticist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@Kyberneticist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyberneticist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/11 "2000-10-05T14:13:05Z")
I was responding to **RickJay**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/12 "2000-10-05T14:41:31Z")
Hear, hear, Brother **CKDextHavn**! Preach it! Those “gravitist” also insist that there’s this attraction between all things. Well, I can tell you right now that my monitor is not the least bit attracted to me, nor I to it. Good Ghods, man, the thing’s plastic and glass, how in the name of the Big Flat Earth am I going to be attracted to that!? And they insist that the Big Flat Earth moves, too! How can it move and not be felt! Of course it doesn’t move, everything revovles around it. Just go out and look at the night sky and see everything revolve around us! Can’t those “gravitist” understand the plain evidence infront of their own eyes. Everything revolves around the Big Flat Earth. We’re at the center of the Universe, it’s that simple! And the stars and “planets” (which are just really bigger stars colored differently) are carried on the crystalline spheres that slowly move thru the heavens as they’re pushed by the Angels. If this “gravity theory” were true, they’d fall down to the Big Flat Earth, wouldn’t they? C’mon admit, they would! And this Kepler and Copurnicus fellow (who was a Polack, btw) admitted they didn’t know how this “gravity” worked. They admitted that if it was true, that everything would fall down to the Big Flat Earth, so if they didn’t believe their own “theory” why should we!? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/13 "2000-10-05T14:41:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > Feh. Downism failed when it was unable to explain why you can’t get down off an elephant. Oh, come on now. Don’t set up _that_ old straw man. Everyone know that the current interpretation of Joshia 1:1-13 explains that you can’t get down off an elephant; you get down off a duck. > [@](#): > > ::sigh:: I’ll try this again, for the benefit of lurkers who may be coming across this canard for the first time. The earth has gravity, but so does everything else. The earth _used_ to be a sphere, but it got pulled out of place. The problem has gotten more pronounced in recent years. How do you think we made the measurements to determine squishiness? Satellites, that’s how. And what do you think those satellites are doing? That’s right. They are pulling on the earth with their gravity. So the more satellites, the more squishiness. It’s a self-proving theory. Then how do you explain ancient maps, which clearly show the earth as being “not-quite-round”? We didn’t have satellites in Magellan’s time, but maps of the 16th and 17th century show a slight pull. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/14 "2000-10-05T14:45:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > **Yeah - and if the theory of “gravity” is so good, where are the missing links? If I attract stuff, it should all be linked to me.** The fact that **kabbes** is as unattractive as he is clearly disproves the misguided beliefs of the gravitists. \*\* > [@](#): > > Of course I accept that _micro_-gravity may be true. \*\* Careful! You have stepped onto that slippery slope that leads to card playing and dancing! Either gravity exists or it does not. There is no middle ground and anyone who suggest that there is will burn in Hell for the secular humanist he is. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/15 "2000-10-05T14:51:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Freyr \* > \*\*We’re at the center of the Universe, it’s that simple! \*\* More specifically, **I’m** at the center of the universe. It is good that I spend most of my time parked in front of a computer or the rest of you would get dizzy when I moved around. ---
**Author:** ![barker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@barker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barker)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/16 "2000-10-05T14:54:40Z")
As usual the Moderators are persecuting the downists. They never do this to any other group. Why can’t you just leave us alone. Note **manhattan’s** comments > [@](#): > > \*\*Downism failed when it was unable to explain why you can’t get down off an elephant \*\*Straw-man > [@](#): > > \*\*Wow. You have to read your own sources more closely, dex. Even biblical literalists have a story to coincide with the Venus passing \*\*ad hominen attack > [@](#): > > \*\*while everyone knows that the earth sucks equally at all distances \*\*Cite please? > [@](#): > > \*\*“And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.” Lk, 2.9 \*\* Your interpretation is entirely incorrect. You need to get rid of that King James version and get the Revised Standard Edition. Replace “sore afraid” will “full of fear” and the true meaning of the passage comes to light. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/17 "2000-10-05T14:57:42Z")
\<\< Why do they call it the “law” of gravity, like it’s been proven? You can’t see gravity, can you? Huh? Huh? Can you? \>\> Well, the Indiana state legislature (along with its law that pi = 3) also passed a bill enforcing gravity, hence the … um … law of gravity. However, it’s only operative in Indiana. ---
**Author:** ![Navigator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4af34b/32.png) [@Navigator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Navigator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/18 "2000-10-05T15:01:18Z")
I’m neither a downist or a gravitist. I think that up is down and down is up. Centrifugal force… I am a roundandroundist… on the subject of maps anything other than the Mercator projection is a lie straight from hell. ---
**Author:** ![headshok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@headshok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/headshok)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/19 "2000-10-05T15:05:51Z")
**manhattan** : I read your post; I’m not going to quote any of it because I’ve already forgotten what it said and I’m sure it’s wrong anyway. But let me give you and all of the other gravitists something brand new to ponder: 1 – If I believe in downism, and I’m wrong, I lose nothing. 2 – If you believe in gravitism, and you’re wrong, you lose everything. Something to think about, no? ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2000, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758/20 "2000-10-05T15:11:04Z")
And what if you found Joseph’s coat half way up Mount Arafat? Would you believe in Downism\* then? [sub]\*or was that made of cotton?[/sub] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravitists-vs-downists/35758.md?page=2)