# Gravity is a push? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 3, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217 "2011-06-03T17:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/1 "2011-06-03T17:17:34Z")
So this guy says that gravity is a push not a pull. His arguments and tests seem reasonable, what do you guys think. [http://keelynet.com/gravity/wright.htm](http://keelynet.com/gravity/wright.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/2 "2011-06-03T18:36:46Z")
I think that when someone states within the first few paragraphs that “you can learn all about this theory if you buy my book!” they’re full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/3 "2011-06-03T18:53:46Z")
The guy sounds like a crank who really believes in his theory. [QUOTE=Walter Wright] The Fairfield Moose Lodge sent me a very complimentary letter dated August 17, 1979 expressing BELIEF IN MY THEORY. [/QUOTE] If there was really anything to it you’d think that in the last 32 years someone a little more recognized in the world of physics than the Fairfield Moose Lodge would have jumped all over this. ---
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/4 "2011-06-03T19:10:14Z")
Nice, did you even bother to look at what is there? He does not say anything about “buying his book to learn more”, it says there is also a book for 12 dollars if you are interested! The page is quite detailed and the links at the bottom continue with more relevant information. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/5 "2011-06-03T19:14:10Z")
[Internet Crackpot Index](http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html) Just skimming through the list this scores at least over 400. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/6 "2011-06-03T19:14:29Z")
He talks about the Sun pushing the Earth. If that’s happening, why does the Earth stay the same distance from the Sun? Shouldn’t it be spiraling away from the Sun? ---
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/7 "2011-06-03T19:14:32Z")
I just found the theory interesting and no one has taken his challenge to prove him wrong. In fact this quote seems to say something.. > [@](#): > > Some think gravity is a push force shielded by large masses (and spinning superconductors? 25). In this model, empty space contains a gravity pressure which may be dark energy. 29 In 1917, Albert Einstein imagined a repulsive force pervading space. This later became his “cosmological constant.” On September 8th, 1968 Walter Wright predicted “The universe will accelerate and expand forever because gravity is a PUSH between bodies in space.” 26 Thirty years later we learned that the universe is indeed expanding at an ever increasing rate. 27 Supporters claim that Wright’s push model also accounts for the motion of the earth’s 14 tides while the pull model does not explain the high tide on the side of the earth opposite the moon. The push model also explains Saturn’s Shepherd Moons From here > **[xenophilia.com](http://www.xenophilia.com/zb0008b.htm)** > > This domain may be for sale! ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/8 "2011-06-03T19:28:41Z")
If the Sun is pushing us down to Earth, why do we stay grounded at night? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/9 "2011-06-03T19:47:27Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > [Internet Crackpot Index](http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html) > > Just skimming through the list this scores at least over 400. This index was developed by the Soulless Minions of Orthodoxy.[sup]TM[/sup]. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/10 "2011-06-03T20:03:19Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > I just found the theory interesting and no one has taken his challenge to prove him wrong. I have a theory that point particles are actually 12 dimensional billiard balls and yet no one has taken my challenge up to prove me wrong. :rolleyes: Buddy has a theory so he can prove to us that it’s better than the current model. Hopefully without mentioning aether and zero point energy. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/11 "2011-06-03T20:25:44Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > [Quote=Walter Wright] > > The Fairfield Moose Lodge sent me a very complimentary letter dated August 17, 1979 expressing BELIEF IN MY THEORY. [/QUOTE] Would any _real_ scientist say something like this? I thought theories were to be tested, replicated, amended, refuted, etc., not “believed in” like Santa Claus or Jesus. ETA: Wait, the _Fairfield Moose Lodge_? Never mind, I can’t argue with an authoritative body like that. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/12 "2011-06-03T21:21:15Z")
The usual method to proposing a new and revolutionary scientific theory is to state a hypothesis based upon some model or observation, develop a set of falsifiable (testable) predictions, write a paper that explains the tenets of the hypothesis and the predictions, and submit to a peer reviewed journal in the appropriate field. Posting supposed theories on a private computer bulletin board service which contain a bunch of spurious claims reinforced by mid-level marketing style formatting and claiming authority via “what he calls his ‘following’ of teenage science students, sci-fi fans and even some physical scientists he calls ‘unbrainwashed’ by Newtonian physics.” Despite the claims that the scientific establishment reflexively rejects hypotheses that are contrary to established theory, a number of major revolutionary theories have been accepted this way, including plate tectonics, endosymbiotic theory, and of course, Einstein’s own theories of energy quantization for the photoelectric effect, special relativity, and later general relativity. I also think that Kip Thorne and Charles Misner (and the ghost of John Archibald Wheeler) would be very surprised to read that “there ARE NO MODELS TO DEMONSTRATE PULL GRAVITY,” given that the three men authored the 1200+ page _Gravitation_, universally regarded by the physics community to be the canonical graduate-level reference on gravitation as described by general relativity. The fact that “Walter has dozens of WORKING MODELS TO DEMONSTRATE THE VALIDITY OF PUSH GRAVITY,” seems to indicate that his models–whatever they are–are incomplete and fragmentary, and thus, hardly positioned to challenge an established physical theory that has been already verified to a high order of precision. I would also be more impressed with a source that didn’t advertize “The Best Aether Theories in one place” and the “Mexistim Polarity Cycler…assists the body to purge toxins from the cells.” Although these are not associated with Walter Wright’s theory, seeing them on the same site doesn’t lend credibility to the critical thinking skills of the website author. [post=13172299]Here[/post] is a previous thread on “pushing” gravity and the problems thereof. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/13 "2011-06-03T21:25:36Z")
This is not unlike the ‘darksucker’ model of light (i.e interesting, but bollocks) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/14 "2011-06-03T21:30:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > [Internet Crackpot Index](http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html) > > Just skimming through the list this scores at least over 400. I get more than that alone just from the #7 criterion (5 points for each word in all capital letters). Once you start getting into the 20 point per issue range, I’m pretty certain we can get at least an order of magnitude greater point yield. He’s not Dr. Gene Ray, but he’s certainly a veritable pretender to the throne of the Crackpot Kingdom. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/15 "2011-06-04T02:04:35Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > So this guy says that gravity is a push not a pull. His arguments and tests seem reasonable, what do you guys think. > > [http://keelynet.com/gravity/wright.htm](http://keelynet.com/gravity/wright.htm) $40 says you ARE “this guy”. ---
**Author:** ![Dahnlor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahnlor/32/533_2.png) [@Dahnlor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahnlor)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/16 "2011-06-04T02:43:01Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > …the _Fairfield Moose Lodge_? Never mind, I can’t argue with an authoritative body like that. That sounds like Freemasons. They control the laws of physics, don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/17 "2011-06-04T02:53:03Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > $40 says you ARE “this guy”. If so, where are the ALL CAPITALS words? Your PULL theory of MESSAGE BOARD postings can’t EXPLAIN that. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/18 "2011-06-04T04:27:03Z")
I haven’t looked at the link, and won’t, but there is one interpretation of the phrase that makes perfect sense to me. Gravity warps space, and it seems perfectly plausible that two bodies in a warped space would be pushed toward each other, like two marbles rolling down the walls of a hemispherical bowl would be pushed together at the bottom by the curvature of the walls. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/19 "2011-06-04T13:24:54Z")
I’m surprised the website doesn’t end with “think about it” (with the implied “please, because I haven’t” tacked on the end). ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217/20 "2011-06-04T14:57:49Z")
That explains why I have to hang onto a lamppost at night. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/gravity-is-a-push/584217.md?page=2)