# Great acting as antagonists in films who are not really bad/evil but just serious a\*\*holes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [September 2, 2025, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682 "2025-09-02T17:12:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/101 "2025-09-04T13:28:47Z")
I would argue most of the “villains” in comedies fall into this category. Guys like Shooter McGavin in Happy Gilmore, Jesus Quintana (John Turturro) in The Big Lebowski, and Ernie McCracken (an inspired Bill Murray) in Kingpin were far more funny jerks than evil. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/102 "2025-09-04T13:29:17Z")
Vince Vaughn as Ricky Slade in **Made**. He’s just Jon Favreau’s character’s fuckup childhood friend who he brings along as a favor, but Ricky can’t stop fucking everything up, because that’s just who he is. I’ve always maintained that you can’t play that character without actually being that guy in real life, and from I’ve heard about Vince Vaughn, he’s absolutely that guy in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/103 "2025-09-04T13:32:32Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > Jesus Quintana (John Turturro) in The Big Lebowski I was going to mention him, but then I remembered his fondness for eight-year-olds, so I disqualified him. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/104 "2025-09-04T13:39:05Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Yeah, because he refers to Hans as buby. Hans was just going to kneecap him but when Ellis said that he signed his own death warrant. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/105 "2025-09-04T15:38:55Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > the bankers/lawyers in _The Goonies_. They were just serving papers on a neighborhood that was going to be foreclosed on. They weren’t just serving papers, they were the very developers destroying an entire community for their own pleasure. IIRC, the details of the 80s banking shenanigans that allowed Mr. Perkins to foreclose on every single house in an entire neighborhood were dropped along with a subplot involving him and two escaped gorillas stealing his son’s Mustang. Displacing hundreds of people so the rich can get richer is pretty evil _to me_, but he also raised a son who attempted murder. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/106 "2025-09-04T16:07:55Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Ellis. Sure, he was a coked-up idiot, but he meant well, and all he wanted was for the situation to end without anyone else dying. Yes, Ellis wasn’t evil, you could even make a case he’s not an asshole, but what he is, is fatally stupid. He claims he makes million dollar deals and he can read this “Euro trash”, but he blows it completely. He misreads the situation, ignored the importance of the recently-departed Takagi, and completely misread Hans. He acted like he was dealing with 8 year olds. Don’t tell me his deal making skillz actually worked in other real-word situations! The trouble with Die Hard, is _everyone_ is stupid. Police chief Robinson, the FBI Johnsons, Thornburg, the guy who says he can’t turn off the power, the guy that actually turns off the power, Theo, Karl, his brother, Ellis, and yes even Al Powell. Maybe Holly and Takagi aren’t, but John certainly shows poor judgement, if not outright stupidity. Shooting it out in the elevator service room would have been much more likely a success that risking falling down the shaft, which had a real-world probability of success in the 0% range. Thank goodness he had the writers on his side! ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/107 "2025-09-04T16:20:00Z")
I take no stand on the dropped subplots; I was unaware of them, and they’re not stated in the film. The developers are working at the behest off/with the country club, which is looking to expand (per the wiki plot summary). The developers are doing their jobs. If anyone is evil, it’s the country club owners who have no issue bulldozing a subdivision to make more room for a golf course. I’m not absolving the developers, but I think the country club is the bigger overarching villain that the developers are. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/108 "2025-09-04T16:25:04Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > The trouble with Die Hard, is _everyone_ is stupid. Chief Robinson was an idiot, but everyone else seemed to be doing okay. The sequel was worse on this score. They couldn’t have McClane trapped alone again, so to make him the lone hero all the other good guys had to be idiots. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/109 "2025-09-04T16:59:34Z")
The great Gary Cole, as Bill Lumbergh in **Office Space** “I almost forgot ahh, I’m also gonna need you to go ahead and come in on Sunday too.” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/110 "2025-09-04T17:09:32Z")
The most banal of evils; the corporate middle manager. Definitely evil, not just for insisting that Peter come in on a weekend to work on whatever project they were hoping to ship, but for sending Milton down to a basement office instead of just sitting down with him and tell him he was being fired. The Bobs, on the other hand, were kind of framed as antagonists but were (mostly) just interested in really finding inefficiencies in the Initech workforce. They correctly recognized that Peter was “a straight shooter with upper management written all over him”. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/111 "2025-09-04T17:23:40Z")
David Cronenburg’s _The Fly_ sets up a love triangle between sexy genius Jeff Goldbloom, sexy reporter Geena Davis, and douchey yuppie John Getz. But at the end of the film, when Goldblum has gone full monster and is trying to force Davis into one of the teleporter pods, John Getz shows up with a shotgun and saves the day, even after Goldblum melts his hand off. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/112 "2025-09-04T17:54:30Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > Agent Smith (in the first, the second is different) reads like a slightly-deranged PTSD vet that would serve as the _protagonist_ in a number of movies. He’s be doing the job so long he’s gone mental, and yet keeps _trying_ to do the right thing to keep his society running while afraid he’ll never be sane again. Well, if we accept that Agent Smith is not necessarily evil, then Hugo Weaving should surely be near the top of this list. He absolutely slays as the character. He uses his very expressive face to full effect. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/113 "2025-09-04T18:15:26Z")
I agree 100%, that’s why I mentioned, him for the thread - it’s the great acting that makes it work. You see him being cold, methodical, rational. Everything we’d expect from a cold-blooded, rational machine/AI in the post Terminator meme-scape. And then, when he has his heart to heart with Morpheus, you see just how far gone he is, it’s a degree of passion and madness we don’t really see elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/114 "2025-09-04T19:32:03Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > HF: “I’m innocent!” > > TLJ: “I don’t care.” Pretty good approximation of a conversation I had many times. If you have a warrant you are getting arrested. If you want to argue about the warrant do it in court. I was going to mention Dean Wormer. He’s an asshole but he’s right to kick out those disruptive dicks and shut down Delta. ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/115 "2025-09-04T19:34:43Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I was going to mention Dean Wormer. He’s an asshole but he’s right to kick out those disruptive dicks and shut down Delta. I find that one’s attitude towards Wormer is a good indicator of one’s maturity. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/116 "2025-09-04T19:49:47Z")
Kent, the asshole physics grad student from _Real Genius_, is a suck up and a jerk, but not evil. He doesn’t know he’s working on a weapon, and when the films protagonists prank him into thinking he’s talking to Jesus (by wiring his braces to pick up targeted radio broadcasts) he’s indignant at the suggestion that his idol, Professor Hathaway, would be doing something so unethical. He does play a couple particularly cruel pranks on the protagonists, but they’re both in revenge for pranks played against him, and he’s really just giving back as good as he got. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/117 "2025-09-04T20:14:12Z")
William Foster (Michael Douglas’s character) in _Falling Down_ is set up as the protagonist. We meet him first in the story, and he’s pretty much just a regular guy who has issues at work and is having one bad day. Things escalate along the way where he gets in a fight in a convenience store, fights a couple gang bangers, pulls a gun at a fast food restaurant, shoots a Neo-Nazi, argues with construction workers, and has a confrontation with his ex-wife. At the end he says “Am I the bad guy?” You might root for him along the way, but he’s not the good guy. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/118 "2025-09-04T21:14:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Kent, the asshole physics grad student from _Real Genius_, is a suck up and a jerk, but not evil. Not evil, but such a dick that he wears a dickey: [![](https://i0.wp.com/reelnewsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/real-genius-kent.jpg?resize=624%2C353) ](https://i0.wp.com/reelnewsdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/real-genius-kent.jpg?resize=624%2C353) He also says, “You will rue the day!” Who talks like that? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/119 "2025-09-04T21:15:01Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > We meet him first in the story, and he’s pretty much just a regular guy who has issues at work and is having one bad day. That’s the deceptive thing about the marketing for that movie: you’re lead to believe he’s just a normal guy who just snaps, but he was around the bend far before the movie started. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2025, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/120 "2025-09-04T21:19:43Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > …you’re lead to believe he’s just a normal guy who just snaps, but he was around the bend far before the movie started. Ditto for Walter White who shouldn’t merit anyone’s sympathy. And in regard to _Breaking Bad_, Hank Schrader is kind of a dick to a lot of people, including to Walter (before he knows that he’s actually ‘Heisenberg’) and in using Jesse to try to trap Walter, but is really trying to do the right thing and ultimately gets killed for it. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682.md?page=7)