# Great acting as antagonists in films who are not really bad/evil but just serious a\*\*holes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [September 2, 2025, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682 "2025-09-02T17:12:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2025, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/141 "2025-09-05T18:34:44Z")
Yeah, I was replying to Frodo’s post. I should have put his name in the third sentence. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2025, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/142 "2025-09-06T08:42:51Z")
I’d like to nominate Frank Burns from the MASH TV series. He’s an antagonist, he’s really trying to foil Hawkeye and Hunnicutt. He’s wildly self-important but just not bad enough. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/143 "2025-09-27T02:17:38Z")
Frank Burns and Winchester are both foils in different ways to the Hawkeye hijinks, but neither are evil. Burns is all in on the military life and wants the others to follow the rules. But he’s a petty self-important prick. He thinks it’s his duty to bring them in line or make them obey the rules - which it kinda is since he’s aMajor and they are Captains. But as long as Colonel Blake is just a bad, he’s got no real ability or authority to do so. And while Colonel Potter is career military, he respects that the doctors are not, and he rightly assesses that their value for their skills as doctors far exceeds any value to taming their antics. Winchester is a pompous ass, but his only real crime is not appreciating their loud partying and pranks. Frankly I’m more a Winchester without the family money than a Hawkeye. ---
**Author:** ![iamatractorboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iamatractorboy/32/21261_2.png) [@iamatractorboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamatractorboy)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/144 "2025-09-27T06:03:20Z")
Would Gny Sgt Hartman count as an antagonist? He’s certainly an arsehole in _Full Metal Jacket._ And just has some brilliant, hilarious lines. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/145 "2025-09-27T15:19:37Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > The sequel was worse on this score. They couldn’t have McClane trapped alone again, so to make him the lone hero all the other good guys had to be idiots. The one with Zeus in it? And you think that McClane was the smart one? > [@Irishman](#): > > Frank Burns and Winchester are both foils in different ways to the Hawkeye hijinks, but neither are evil. Winchester definitely wasn’t evil, but Burns was. His incompetence was constantly hurting people, which isn’t itself evil, but he didn’t care that he was constantly hurting people, which is evil. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2025, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/146 "2025-09-27T16:39:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The one with Zeus in it? And you think that McClane was the smart one? No, the second one at the airport. McClane fights with the two guys in the baggage area, and no one believes him when he says they’re more than just thieves. The SWAT teams walks right into an ambush. That sort of thing. McClane still comes off as a lone hero when all the other good guys are incompetent. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/147 "2025-09-28T13:53:40Z")
Now I’m reminded of _Clash of the Titans_ (1981), where the gods give Perseus a hard time and are basically the underlying antagonists. I don’t see much great acting by Laurence Olivier, Maggie Smith, Ursula Andress, et al., but they were at least capable of great acting. The gods aren’t exactly evil, but they sure are being dicks about everything. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/148 "2025-09-28T15:52:24Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Winchester definitely wasn’t evil, but Burns was. His incompetence was constantly hurting people, which isn’t itself evil, but he didn’t care that he was constantly hurting people, which is evil. Yeah, Burns was “evil,” in the sense that he was petty, and simultaneously convinced of his own talents while being terribly insecure and not actually as good a doctor as he believed. And, as noted, he got off on being a senior officer, and in exerting his authority. He was a two-dimensional villain, and suited for the tone of the series’ early seasons. Winchester was a superior surgeon, who initially believed that his skills were wasted in such a hellhole, and had no qualms about bleating about this to everyone. But, much like Houlihan, in the later seasons, the hard edges of his character were knocked off, and he became much more human and likeable. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/149 "2025-09-28T23:11:44Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Winchester was a superior surgeon, who initially believed that his skills were wasted in such a hellhole, and had no qualms about bleating about this to everyone. I mean, part of the point of M\*A\*S\*H was that, in a warzone, everyone’s skills are wasted. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/150 "2025-09-28T23:34:41Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Winchester was a superior surgeon, who initially believed that his skills were wasted in such a hellhole, and had no qualms about bleating about this to everyone. But, much like Houlihan, in the later seasons, the hard edges of his character were knocked off, and he became much more human and likeable. In his first appearance he had no problem rubbing it in that he was going back to the easy life in Tokyo while they were stuck in the hellhole. Not evil but he was a dick. ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2025, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/151 "2025-09-28T23:38:00Z")
That is the whole premise/title of the thread, not evil - just assholes. Burns and Winchester fill that ‘role’. ---
**Author:** ![f.coli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eada6e/32.png) [@f.coli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/f.coli)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/152 "2025-09-29T14:22:03Z")
Captain Queeg in The Caine Mutiny. It’s not evil to want your ship to look smart and well-polished, and your crew to look sharp. Unfortunately, he was not really qualified for command, had no nerve, and had little respect for the enlisted men. But he did give the Navy several years of adequate service, and Greenwald had good reason to respect him for that, and felt sick about what he had to do to Queeg to get Maryk acquitted. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/153 "2025-09-29T17:14:23Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > The gods aren’t exactly evil, but they sure are being dicks about everything. A lot of gods are like that. Not just the Greek ones. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/154 "2025-10-01T14:49:03Z")
> [@TreacherousCretin](#): > > A lot of gods are like that. Not just the Greek ones. That’s the main reason the gods exist, isn’t it? You either come to terms with an uncaring universe that doles out misery and joy randomly, or you invent a pantheon of assholes who you attempt to propitiate with prayer, worship, sacrifices, virgins, etc. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/155 "2025-10-01T18:09:23Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Winchester is a pompous ass, but his only real crime is not appreciating their loud partying and pranks. Frankly I’m more a Winchester without the family money than a Hawkeye. This video of one of [Winchester’s best moments](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtaKMHZGv1U&pp=ygUXbWFzaCB3aW5jaGVzdGVyIHN0dXR0ZXI%253D) cropped up in my feed a few days ago. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/156 "2025-10-01T18:57:15Z")
He’s not necessarily an asshole to _everyone_, just to Jerry. He has surely put up with a decade or more of idiotic shit from Jerry, who has probably only kept his job at the car dealership because he’s the boss’s son in law. There is no reason to assume Wade would be an asshole to Jerry if Jerry was a more admirable person. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/157 "2025-10-01T22:34:10Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > This video of one of [Winchester’s best moments](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtaKMHZGv1U&pp=ygUXbWFzaCB3aW5jaGVzdGVyIHN0dXR0ZXI%253D) cropped up in my feed a few days ago. I get that the ‘don’t make fun of people with a stammer’ is the point, but ‘adults shouldn’t read comic books’ is quite apropos for today’s society as well. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/158 "2025-10-01T22:42:20Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > This video of one of [Winchester’s best moments](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtaKMHZGv1U&pp=ygUXbWFzaCB3aW5jaGVzdGVyIHN0dXR0ZXI%253D) cropped up in my feed a few days ago. Haven’t watched much of MASH but that made me cry. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/159 "2025-10-01T22:52:58Z")
What I took away from that particular scene was this: the reason the soldier limited his reading to comic books was that, because of his stutter, everyone always told him that he was stupid. Charles knew this was not the case, and took the trouble to get him to read “real” books, and thus open up his world. And yes, I did cry at the end of that clip, even though I knew what was coming. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2025, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682/160 "2025-10-01T23:31:40Z")
What I took away from it is, when Walt gets to the chapters on whale skin and other digressions, he’s going to go “WTF, Chuck?” 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-acting-as-antagonists-in-films-who-are-not-really-bad-evil-but-just-serious-a-holes/1022682.md?page=9)