# Great article from The Onion about washed-up has-been Rock Stars **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 28, 2014, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783 "2014-10-28T18:10:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/41 "2014-10-29T16:08:03Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Seems to me the difference in approach depends on whether one is viewing music as an _art_, or as a _craft_. > > If one is viewing music as an “art”, and musicians as “artists”, it is sort of sad to see them doing the same old thing they did thirty years ago - no growth, no change. > > OTOH, if one is viewing music as a “craft” and musicians as “craftspersons”, then as long as they are still putting bums on seats, what’s the problem? No-one finds it “sad” that a chair-maker is still making the same chairs 30 years later - as long as they are comfy, and sell well. Presumably, after they are finished a day’s work, they wash up, take their pay, and go home to their partners and families, happy with a day’s work well done. Yeah, I suppose that’s fair. With Alice, I’m lucky. He’s never stopped doing new stuff and he’s about to drop another album. I won’t pretend he’s on the cutting edge of experimental or hip, but he doesn’t just stick to what he’s famous for and I do think he tries to grow as an artist. Regardless of whether overall an artist can be considered “sad” or not, I still think there’s an argument to be made if 1) they still love what they’re doing, 2) people want them to be doing it, and 3) they’re still good at it. But if you’ve turned into a sloppy, lounge lizard drunk messing up the lyrics to “Louie Louie” in some backwater dive to only a handful of dopes at 3:00 AM? Then you should definitely pack it in. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/42 "2014-10-29T19:19:29Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Next you’re gonna tell me that that bleach blonde guy prancing around in spandex all through the 80’s wasn’t Eddie Van Halen. Well not all of them 'cause a man can’t be in more than one place at the same time, and there were at least a dozen “bleach blonde guy prancing around in spandex all through the 80’s” Van Hagar, Loverboy, and _that little faggot with the earring and the mink coat_ come to mind – particularly when spandex and prancing on stage are mentioned… –G! Yer welcome for that ear worm! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/43 "2014-10-30T00:59:36Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > Well not all of them 'cause a man can’t be in more than one place at the same time, and there were at least a dozen “bleach blonde guy prancing around in spandex all through the 80’s” > > Van Hagar, Loverboy, and _that little faggot with the earring and the mink coat_ come to mind – particularly when spandex and prancing on stage are mentioned… > > –G! > Yer welcome for that ear worm! 😃 “little faggot with the earring and the makeup” - not mink coat ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/44 "2014-10-30T01:04:37Z")
Alice Cooper (who I love) sang Lady Gaga’s “Born This Way” (which I love) in concert. It’s like a perfect storm of awesomeness. I was thrilled to the core to see that video on youtube. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/45 "2014-10-30T13:09:43Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You’re being sarcastic, but you are totally wrong. _The Dave Clark Five_, however dated they may look to you now, were totally part of what was upsetting the establishment and the parental units in the early to mid '60s. For one thing, hair like that was still outrageously long in '63 (their peak). _The Beatles_ wore suits too, and much of their music was a lot softer than Dave Clark’s, but there really were people who thought they spelled the end of civilization. That’s my point. Rock’s “rebellion” only made sense during a very small window in the late 50s/early 60s. Since then, other groups have taken up the cause of rebellion in rock but, for the most part, there’s nothing left to rebel against. Rock’s most scandalous people from the early days look like choir boys now. And the idea that Elvis Presley’s hips were turning women into whores is just eye-rolling in its stupidity. Rock has changed. Deal with it grandpa. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/46 "2014-10-30T15:03:46Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Rock has changed. Deal with it grandpa. Keep a civil tongue in your head, young man. No warning issued. **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/47 "2014-10-30T15:06:09Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > That’s my point. Rock’s “rebellion” only made sense during a very small window in the late 50s/early 60s. Since then, other groups have taken up the cause of rebellion in rock but, for the most part, there’s nothing left to rebel against. Rock’s most scandalous people from the early days look like choir boys now. And the idea that Elvis Presley’s hips were turning women into whores is just eye-rolling in its stupidity. > > Rock has changed. Deal with it grandpa. That’s a tad harsh and unnecessarily condescending. And I would argue that _you_ are missing the point - - Rock acts, and rock music, blew up because it was risky and dangerous. Mostly, this is because it was focused on a newly-minted demographic, TEENAGERS - who like that risky stuff - or at least being tempted by it. So, yeah, Elvis was risky in his day, the Sex Pistols risky in theirs. - Now, the real question is: did a specific artist make their reputation because of their risky persona, or because of the songs/talent? It is on a spectrum - and it varies to each person. So - Blondie? Well, to folks who just thought Debbie Harry was hawt, then her performing now would be a non-starter, but the songs are good and her voice is solid and she/they are legit musicians, so if someone goes for that, then cool, too. For another example, I struggle at the thought of Iggy Pop performing with his shirt off - he has a few good songs, but was really about the performance and he no longer has the body he once did. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/48 "2014-10-30T15:12:03Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > That’s my point. Rock’s “rebellion” only made sense during a very small window in the late 50s/early 60s. Since then, other groups have taken up the cause of rebellion in rock but, for the most part, there’s nothing left to rebel against. Rock’s most scandalous people from the early days look like choir boys now. And the idea that Elvis Presley’s hips were turning women into whores is just eye-rolling in its stupidity. > > Rock has changed. Deal with it grandpa. You could not be more wrong. Nothing about rock/contemporary culture has changed. Elvis’s hips didn’t actually turn girls into whores and the kids knew it. They embraced it _because_ it upset the older generation so much. With the 60’s came the hippy music and culture _because_ kids figured out that being hippies was so upsetting to the clean-cut-atomic-bomb-obsessed-the-communists-are-coming-to-get-us-all older generation. The 70’s were a depressing lull in counter culture until the end when punk rock made the scene. But disco was big and so was coke and heroin. There was a lot of sex going on. I imagine parents stayed up worrying about that. The 80’s brought more punk culture with tones of anarchy. It also brought New Wave with it’s androgynie and gay friendly attitudes. That was in contrast to Wall street and money centered attitudes of the established middle aged classes. The 90’s were grunge and self loathing and more drugs and feigned hopelessness that scared the shit out of all parents because they thought their kids would live forever in their basements and never get a real job and build real lives. The new millennium brought Rap and Hip Hop. I trust I don’t have to explain how or why that is considered rebellious. Point being… every generation has something it rebelled against. It doesn’t matter that you consider everything later than 50’s/60’s to be trivial rebellion. It’s all fucking trivial rebellion. That’s why, “What have you got?” is the perfect answer to the question, “What are you rebelling against?” You grok? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/49 "2014-10-30T17:28:17Z")
I get what you’re saying. I just think it’s hooey, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/50 "2014-10-30T17:34:55Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Alice Cooper (who I love) sang Lady Gaga’s “Born This Way” (which I love) in concert. It’s like a perfect storm of awesomeness. I was thrilled to the core to see that video on youtube. Of note to this, Alice is coming out with a [cover songs album.](http://ultimateclassicrock.com/alice-cooper-covers-2015/) I like his comments in the article, who’d have thought he’d be the one to outlive everybody else? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/51 "2014-10-30T19:31:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You could not be more wrong. Nothing about rock/contemporary culture has changed. Rock definitely has an element of rebellion to it, but here’s the thing, in the context of the thread: If you’re young and rebellious, you listen to, and go see whatever the contemporary bands are, because they piss your parents off, or that’s the theory anyway. What do you listen to and go see when you’re somewhere north of 35, have a house and kids? You’re hardly rebellious at that point, and if you didn’t get into more timeless styles of music like jazz or classical, your general trajectory is to keep listening to the same rock and pop, as it segues into being “Oldies”, and you go see “Loverboy” in concert at Winstar World Casino, not because they’re cool and rebellious, but because it’s the music you still like, and because they’re still playing it. Not everybody has this sort of middle-aged lifestyle ossification, but it does happen to a whole lot of people out there, and that’s who the has-been bands are catering toward. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/52 "2014-10-30T19:48:02Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Not everybody has this sort of middle-aged lifestyle ossification, but it does happen to a whole lot of people out there, and that’s who the has-been bands are catering toward. Like I said, I’m not suggesting people should not support their favourite artist into their senior years if they want. If either fan or artist lasts that long and can perform/attend, more power to them. I’m simply saying that _for me_, it feels a little sad to watch Blondie, or Iggy or Simon LeBon, or whoever, without being uncomfortably self-aware of the ravages of time. Particularly so if the artist is still rehashing the classics. So when I’m feeling nostalgic and want to enjoy that music again, I’ll throw in my old CD’s or watch the original music videos on YouTube. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/53 "2014-10-30T21:10:08Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Like I said, I’m not suggesting people should not support their favourite artist into their senior years if they want. If either fan or artist lasts that long and can perform/attend, more power to them. > > I’m simply saying that _for me_, it feels a little sad to watch Blondie, or Iggy or Simon LeBon, or whoever, without being uncomfortably self-aware of the ravages of time. Particularly so if the artist is still rehashing the classics. So when I’m feeling nostalgic and want to enjoy that music again, I’ll throw in my old CD’s or watch the original music videos on YouTube. I missed your earlier statement to that effect; I actually agree with what you’re saying. The part I don’t quite get is how excited these people are. I mean I’ve seen video of some of these long-in-the-tooth acts, and there are 40-something soccer moms screaming like they did in 1985, and men doing the same things they used to do also but being old enough to have kids who should be doing that. THAT is what I find kind of sad. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/54 "2014-10-30T21:34:36Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I missed your earlier statement to that effect; I actually agree with what you’re saying. > > The part I don’t quite get is how excited these people are. I mean I’ve seen video of some of these long-in-the-tooth acts, and there are 40-something soccer moms screaming like they did in 1985, and men doing the same things they used to do also but being old enough to have kids who should be doing that. **THAT is what I find kind of sad.** Mind if I ask how old you are? ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/55 "2014-10-30T22:25:49Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > I don’t know about all this. There is a real point to the criticism of old rockers, and their fans. Rock and Roll never was purely about the music, as art, it has always mainly been about youth and sex, and indeed, about youth giving the finger to the older generation, and reveling in its own exuberant sexuality. There _is_ something pathetic about going through those same old motions, either as artist or audience, and no matter how skillfully it is done, when one is old oneself. Enjoyment of “oldie rock” has much more to do with nostalgia for lost youth than with the _very_ different emotions it aroused when it was fresh and its fans were young. > > I speak as someone who is (and always has been) almost as old as _The Rolling Stones_. I am not young and exuberant any more. I admit it. I think this is one thing that benefits Rush in their “old age”. They almost completely skipped writing songs about sex and drugs. They can perform their old songs now without seeming “pathetic”. > [@Lucretia](#): > > And I don’t know about that. Sure, R&R was about giving the finger to the establishment…and what if the establishment says you’re not supposed to be sexual and rocking out when you’re 70? What’s more in the spirit of R&R than saying “Fuck you” to people who don’t approve of how you’re living your life? I like how Steel Panther addresses this: https://www.youtube.com/embed/HAvXHpLwJA4?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=PLFuipLA1g-UMPlw7IJmGUCAa05e6zpW1u Lyrics, referring to his girlfriend’s father: _Somehow he thinks I’m too old for you 'Cuz you’re nineteen and I’m fifty-two…_ 😃 The thing about old rockers (why is it only rockers? why does nobody complain about old country singers or old jazz musicians?) that a lot of people miss is … _it’s their fucking job_! It’s what they do! I can’t remember the actor’s name, but somebody asked this well-known, prolific actor, “Why have you been in so many bad movies?” And the actor, looking dumbfounded, replied, “I’m an _actor_! It’s what I do [for a living]!” Same thing with musicians: _It’s what they do_. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/56 "2014-10-30T22:29:02Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I missed your earlier statement to that effect; I actually agree with what you’re saying. > > The part I don’t quite get is how excited these people are. I mean I’ve seen video of some of these long-in-the-tooth acts, and there are 40-something soccer moms screaming like they did in 1985, and men doing the same things they used to do also but being old enough to have kids who should be doing that. THAT is what I find kind of sad. Heh. This is me, seeing as I’m 46 now and have completely lost my shit the couple of times I’ve seen Alice. Who knew it was so sad that my middle-aged self was having such a good time? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/57 "2014-10-30T23:13:56Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Heh. This is me, seeing as I’m 46 now and have completely lost my shit the couple of times I’ve seen Alice. Who knew it was so sad that my middle-aged self was having such a good time? [Just sayin’…](http://pics.lolriot.com/picture-136-how-you-think-you-look-like-while-partying-hard.html)😉 ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/58 "2014-10-31T00:08:36Z")
Nah. I never looked like that, even when I was a young thang. But that’s okay. We can’t all be super hawt. ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/59 "2014-10-31T00:59:18Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > Heh. This is me, seeing as I’m 46 now and have completely lost my shit the couple of times I’ve seen Alice. **Who knew it was so sad that my middle-aged self was having such a good time?** I guess we’re supposed to sit in our rocking chairs and knit? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2014, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783/60 "2014-10-31T01:19:14Z")
> [@Helena330](#): > > I guess we’re supposed to sit in our rocking chairs and knit? I suppose so, granny. Pass the Sarsaparilla. But truly, I can’t give a flying rat’s ass whether some random stranger thinks I’m pathetic or not. When I’ve been to these concerts, I’ve had the time of my life. If others are shaking their heads in pity, they’ve got more time on their hands than I do. Because my spare hours (if I have any) are filled with taking care of my own bee’s wax, not worrying about what anyone else is up to. I’m sure you’re also having way too much fun to give a shit either. See you at bingo! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-article-from-the-onion-about-washed-up-has-been-rock-stars/702783.md?page=2)