# "Great Books" that no one seems to like...what are we missing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [July 29, 2021, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575 "2021-07-29T06:26:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/261 "2021-08-04T17:57:59Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@Crane](#): > > > > Melville writes, in the book, that he had the same opinion. Moby Dick is more of a writers’ notebook of stuff that he is going to put in a book some day but never gets around to it. > > One chapter begins with a long description of a ship’s crow’s nest before finally admitting that, while that’s a crow’s nest, it’s not the one on the narrator’s ship. It then describes the narrator’s ship’s crow’s nest, then talks about other things people stand on, then talks about other things that other things stand on. > > That chapter broke me > > Soon afterwards, I reached a chapter about the color white, and I noped out of there. On the other hand, Melville’s description of the chowder at the Try Pots Inn made my mouth water; it’s one of the best descriptions of a meal I’ve read. Almost food porn. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/262 "2021-08-04T18:05:03Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > On the other hand, Melville’s description of the chowder at the Try Pots Inn made my mouth water; it’s one of the best descriptions of a meal I’ve read. Almost food porn. I 100% agree that Melville can write the shit out of a descriptive passage. Even the passages that drove me off were beautifully written. Back in college, I had a super-nerdy roommate who loved Russian literature. At one point, in despair, he told me I was a narrative junkie. Dude was on to something. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/263 "2021-08-04T18:12:27Z")
In the real world sure. In a fictional story it is guaranteed to happen. 🙂 But, Shakespeare’s characters had to cross paths at just the right time for the story to progress. Ahab could sail for an extra week before sighting the whale and it would have all happened the same. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/264 "2021-08-04T19:10:14Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I wonder how many people in high school read _Romeo & Juliet_ and think it is a romance or, at worst, a light romantic tragedy. > > The story is nothing more than teenage infatuation run amok. It takes place over the course of about five days(?) and six(?) people die due to a very new love affair. The whole thing is a colossal disaster but I am not sure most people in high school get that and somehow think the takeaway is star-crossed lovers and everyone else just didn’t get them. IME kids at school now (or ten years ago, anyway) definitely do get that. I don’t know if they did when I was young, but the kids I’ve taught Romeo and Juliet - even the ones who also think it’s quite romantic - were very quick to criticise Romeo for switching from Rosalind to Juliet so quickly, and Juliet for killing herself. They quite like it compared to a lot of other secondary school literature (they LOVE Mercutio), but they’re not naïve. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/265 "2021-08-04T19:37:32Z")
Also, Shakespeare drops hints throughout that the feud is on its last legs and if it weren’t for firebrands like Tybalt, it would have already ended. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/266 "2021-08-04T19:45:16Z")
That is interesting. It does seem different from when we were in school (not sure of your age but close-ish I guess). Are the kids today smarter, more savvy, more cynical? I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/267 "2021-08-04T19:48:15Z")
I think _Moby Dick_ is a great novel. Nevertheless, I enjoyed this: > **[Selections from One-Star Amazon Reviews of Melville’s Moby-Dick](https://biblioklept.org/2019/08/01/selections-from-one-star-amazon-reviews-of-melvilles-moby-dick-3/)** > > \[Ed. note: The following citations come from one-star Amazon reviews of Herman Melville’s novel Moby-Dick. To be very clear, I think Moby-Dick is fantastic—but I also enjoy seeing what … Some choice excerpts: “I am quite the fan of stories which involve man eating sea creatures, such as Jaws. Moby Dick is nothing compared to such classics, I fear.” “I love literatur just as much as the next guy but we must face it 100 years or so ago American literature was reall weak and lagging from the rest of the world, perhaps now they’re starting to catch up with writers like Ann Rice and them.” “Honestly, Over 400 pages devoted to killing a whale because it ate your hand? Come on.” “Moby Ick’s more like it.” ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/268 "2021-08-04T19:51:07Z")
We didn’t do R&J when I was a kid, so I have no direct experience. But I think it’s possible kids these days are more cynical and media-savvy, yeah. I’ve only taught in London but I doubt they’re much different in the rest of the country. It works really well as a class text, actually - there’s loads of stuff in it that sparks debate and gets the students interested. (I’m 45 so probably similar in age to you). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/269 "2021-08-04T19:58:05Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > (I’m 45 so probably similar in age to you). I’m 54 so yeah…totally practically the same. Just flip the numbers…I am basically 45. 😉 I think the generation is roughly the same though. Near enough. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/270 "2021-08-04T20:03:16Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m 54 so yeah…totally practically the same. Just flip the numbers…I am basically 45. 😉 > > I think the generation is roughly the same though. Near enough. My GF’s 9 years younger than me so I am totally on board with 9 years being practically the same. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/271 "2021-08-04T20:04:00Z")
Besides the small font size, my copy was delivered late with some of the pages stuck together. One star. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/272 "2021-08-04T21:12:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It does seem different from when we were in school (not sure of your age but close-ish I guess). > > Are the kids today smarter, more savvy, more cynical? I suspect they’ve consumed more, and more sophisticated, media than I had at that age (but read fewer books). ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/273 "2021-08-04T21:35:44Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Someone upthread mentioned having to read Shakespeare plays in school. Someone pointed out that the plays are meant to be performed, not read, so they might be better understood if you listened to or watched a performance Unquestionably. I remember the first time I saw _Romeo and Juliet_ and being surprised to discover that the first scene, featuring Montague and Capulet servants insulting each other (“Do you bite your thumb at us, sir?” “Is the law of our side if I say ‘Ay’?” “No.” “No, I do not bite my thumb at you, sir…_but I bite my thumb, sir_”) was actually really funny. Only as an adult did it occur to me that Shakespeare wasn’t writing novels; he was writing scripts. His plays were just that, plays – they were meant to be acted out. _Of course_ they’re more comprehensible and enjoyable when seen on the stage. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2021, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/274 "2021-08-04T23:07:13Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > She might not notice that. I doubt I did when I was young and reading above my grade level. On the other hand, it wasn’t something _anyone_ noticed back then. You are mistaken about what other people noticed “back then.” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/275 "2021-08-05T02:00:42Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Only as an adult did it occur to me that Shakespeare wasn’t writing novels; he was writing scripts. His plays were just that, plays – they were meant to be acted out. _Of course_ they’re more comprehensible and enjoyable when seen on the stage. I earn my living as a translator and editor, so the couple of times I’ve acted in a Shakespeare play (purely for fun) I was eager to apply my language skills to getting the most out of the text. It’s not always easy to parse his sentences, figure out how some words should be pronounced, and decide what emphasis should be placed where. Once you do, however, everything just falls into place and you can see how brilliant a writer he was. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/276 "2021-08-05T09:20:15Z")
One of the best things I remember from high school English was being taken to a professional performance of _Romeo and Juliet._ Yeah, we got it. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/277 "2021-08-05T09:30:00Z")
My ancestor was taught Shakespeare by the method of class reading. Class reading pages, not parts. Just start at the top of the page and read out loud until the next student was called on. _He_ didn’t ‘get’ Shakespeare, and had no further interest. On of my friends had Antony and Cleopatra performed by the school. _He_ had a picture of a tragic romance between self-involved teenagers. ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/278 "2021-08-05T11:57:20Z")
There is a well-regarded theater outside of Madison, WI - The American Player’s Theater in Spring Green - and our English lit class in high school went to a play. The Two Gentlemen of Verona, I think. Or possibly The Tempest. Seeing it definitely made the play much more understandable than reading it. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/279 "2021-08-05T12:23:25Z")
> [@kitap](#): > > I don’t have a problem with people reading above their age level, but let’s not pretend little Ermintrude - or little Aethelstan - is going to understand that the idle rich destroy everyone around them - including Nick - in **The Great Gatsby** or why no one in the book is a good role model. They’ll read a story about rich people having affairs and a rich guy who throws great parties and dies and gosh, isn’t Gatsby’s love for Daisy romantic? This is my main issue with **Gatsby** ; no one ever remembers the point. When someone tells me they want to throw a “Gatsby party” I think: “You want to have an affair and murder each other?” ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/280 "2021-08-05T12:40:46Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > > [@kitap](#): > > > > I don’t have a problem with people reading above their age level, but let’s not pretend little Ermintrude - or little Aethelstan - is going to understand that the idle rich destroy everyone around them - including Nick - in **The Great Gatsby** or why no one in the book is a good role model. They’ll read a story about rich people having affairs and a rich guy who throws great parties and dies and gosh, isn’t Gatsby’s love for Daisy romantic? > > This is my main issue with **Gatsby** ; no one ever remembers the point When someone tells me they want to throw a “Gatsby party” I think: “You want to have an affair and murder each other?” People need hobbies, @DCnDC [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575.md?page=15)