# "Great Books" that no one seems to like...what are we missing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [July 29, 2021, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575 "2021-07-29T06:26:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/404 "2021-08-14T00:25:05Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not the ones for parents to read to their kids or beginning readers. But yeah, YA and the better written books for older grade school kids can be a great read for all ages. The Hobbit is an example. So are the _Dark is Rising_ series by Susan Cooper. > > But _Goodnight Moon_ ? Maybe not. 😛 theres nothing wrong with reading fox in socks hop on pop once in a while 
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**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/405 "2021-08-14T00:37:13Z")
I greatly enjoyed 11/22/63. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/406 "2021-08-14T00:46:46Z")
> [@Mike\_Mabes](#): > > But what I wanted to ask was, in War and Peace, at least three times in the first three books, Tolstoy describes Prince Vasily taking someone’s hand and drawing it downward. What does this mean, I assume it’s a literal description. Hard to tell without more context. Shaking hands with a man or as a sign of affection with a woman, maybe. It would also help to know what the Russian wording is. (I have no idea what it could be, but ex might. She’s from Siberia. I’ll ask her.) ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/407 "2021-08-14T00:51:56Z")
always with a man. No context really, just they meet. BTW I am reading, again, the Maude’s translation, is it good? Maybe it would be drawing the hands inward, pulling the shakee closer ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/408 "2021-08-14T00:56:00Z")
One moment
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**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/409 "2021-08-14T00:57:07Z")
This is what my ex says: “I don’t think it’s common in Russia, but I can think of two meanings: someone is pretty bored or exhausted and wants to get out of that place and take that other person with them, or, like you said, vigorous shaking of hands, i.e. “I’m so happy I saw you here!” I’d need to see HOW they do it, to tell you more about it
” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/410 "2021-08-14T01:06:01Z")
Can’t comment on the translation myself, since I’ve never read the book in either English or Russian. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/411 "2021-08-14T01:54:01Z")
so maybe it should have been translated as “inward” instead of “downward”. I can’t imagine shaking hands with someone and pulling their hand down. Which goes to my question about which is the best translation. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/412 "2021-08-14T03:09:49Z")
FWIW, the verb in the Russian expression “to shake hands” (ĐżĐŸĐ¶ĐžĐŒĐ°Ń‚ŃŒ) can also be translated as “press,” “wring,” “squeeze,” “grasp,” “clasp,” and (probably not applicable here) “shrug.” The reflexive form of the verb (ĐżĐŸĐ¶ĐžĐŒĐ°Ń‚ŃŒŃŃ) can be translated as “shrink up,” “huddle up,” “cluster,” and “crowd.” It all depends on the context. [https://www.multitran.com/m.exe?l1=2&l2=1&s=ĐżĐŸĐ¶ĐžĐŒĐ°Ń‚ŃŒ+&langlist=1](https://www.multitran.com/m.exe?l1=2&l2=1&s=%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8C+&langlist=1) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/413 "2021-08-14T04:07:55Z")
Huh. I was an English lit major and I have never even heard of “The Yellow Wallpaper.” Is this just a big blind spot for me or do others also find it obscure. (I think I had read everything else, though half in high school, minus “The Story of an Hour.” I’m not really familar with that one, either, although the name rings a bell.) ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/414 "2021-08-14T04:53:27Z")
I’d never heard of them either. These days they like to introduce feminist works into the curriculum. Probably there are a lot of lesser known works by Black authors too, but since there’s no agreed set of books that everyone includes, they won’t be high on the list. English Lit is not a static field at all. I’m not sure whether they’re now over the long period of deconstructionism, etc. but I think it’s a bit passĂ© now, and literary theory has moved on to new academic pastures. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/415 "2021-08-14T04:53:44Z")
I wasn’t familiar with those two works either, though at least I had read some Kate Chopin. The background of “The Yellow Wallpaper” is interesting. > **[House of horror: the poisonous power of Charlotte Perkins Gilman's 'The...](https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2020/feb/07/charlotte-perkins-gilman-yellow-wallpaper-strangeness-classic-short-story-exhibition)** > > It has inspired TV, stage, film – and now two new art shows. Kathryn Hughes strips back the layers of this classic tale to understand its enduring appeal ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/416 "2021-08-14T08:51:57Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Huh. I was an English lit major and I have never even heard of “The Yellow Wallpaper.” A brief discussion when I asked about them, and was told “so what?” [Books: “THE YELLOW WALLPAPER” and “THE AWAKENING” - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/books-the-yellow-wallpaper-and-the-awakening/832164) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/417 "2021-08-14T15:13:11Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Huh. I was an English lit major and I have never even heard of “The Yellow Wallpaper.” Is this just a big blind spot for me or do others also find it obscure. I’ve been aware of it for long enough that I can’t remember where I first encountered it—probably in a school reader or anthology. It’s a short story by an author who’s maybe a one-hit wonder (though her feminist utopia _Herland_ is somewhat famous in some circles); and its themes of mental health and feminism probably account for why it’s become more popular lately. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/418 "2021-08-14T15:35:20Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I was an English lit major and I have never even heard of “The Yellow Wallpaper.” I’m familiar with it, although I’ve never read it. it’s moderately famous as one of the earliest works that articulates modern feminist themes. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/419 "2021-08-14T20:08:48Z")

suddenly taking Anna Pavlovna’s hand and for some reason drawing it downward 
taking her hand and bending it downward, as was his habit 
drew it downward, as if wishing to ascertain if it was firmly fixed on 
taking his hand and drawing him downwards Several others. Sounds weird to me, especially the last one ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/420 "2021-08-14T20:21:53Z")
Sounds weird to me too. Maybe he’s disappointed with these people for some reason. I can see taking a woman’s hand and squeezing it to comfort or reassure her, but not a man’s. Maybe he wants to share something confidential with him and is just bringing him closer. Unless it’s a really bad translation, “him” has to refer to the other man and not the hand, since the latter is feminine in Russian (_ruka_). In normal English, the hand would just be “it.” BTW, the “Shake hands!” command you give a dog is “_Dai lapu_” (“Give [me] [your] paw!”). ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/421 "2021-08-14T20:45:15Z")
Got a Kindle sample. Briggs translates the first two as pressing it downwards, that makes more sense, although downwards still seems a little awkward. But what is now confusing me is that the chapters are numbered differently. The second one is in chapter 18 in Briggs, 21 in the the Maude translation ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/422 "2021-08-14T20:53:06Z")
Curiouser and curiouser! I could never get away with that in my work. BTW: In traditional Russian culture, women do not shake hands. Nineteeth-century Russian noblewomen definitely did not. A man might take a woman’s hand and squeeze it to show affection or concern, but he would never shake it. This is true today even in a business context. A woman might let you take her hand for a moment when you’re introduced, but that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Mabes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mike_mabes/32/1782_2.png) [@Mike\_Mabes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_Mabes)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2021, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/423 "2021-08-14T21:01:30Z")
thought about switching to the Briggs translation, but I read the first sentence - Well, Prince, Genoa and Lucca are now nothing more that estates taken over by the Buonaparte family. Maude - Well, Prince, so Genoa and Lucca are now just family estates of the Buonapartes. Later in the paragraph, Briggs says “ghastly atrocities”, Maude “infamies and horrors” Maude is much better IMO. I read an article the other day, telling people who don’t want to read it beause of it’s length the reasons they should. It said it had the worst opening sentence of any great novel. Can’t disagree more [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575.md?page=22)