# "Great Books" that no one seems to like...what are we missing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [July 29, 2021, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575 "2021-07-29T06:26:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/444 "2021-08-16T18:17:13Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Shakespeare had great stories, and great usage of language, but he’s a pretty awful historical source. But he’s a great source for the Elizabethan era. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/445 "2021-08-16T18:20:01Z")
That’s the literal translation, but it’s much more subtle than that. It sounds as though he _considered_ going to a _shvits_ in America, but decided to stay in Russia instead. This, of course, is nonsense, since there was no way he could visit the USA. This is a good example of irony in Russian satire. You really have to come from that culture to get the joke. (I had to ask my ex about it.) ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/446 "2021-08-16T18:22:26Z")
Do you mean he’s a great source for Elizabethan era propaganda? ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/447 "2021-08-16T18:25:49Z")
I mean that if you want to study Elizabethan history, you could do worse than starting with Shakespeare. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/448 "2021-08-16T18:26:24Z")
He’s a good source for _life_ in Elizabethan England, especially if you know the meaning of all the obsolete words he uses. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/449 "2021-08-16T18:38:38Z")
My translation, which really should be read with a Yiddish accent: “I went to the local bathhouse last Saturday. I thought about going to one in America, but decided against it.” ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/450 "2021-08-16T18:53:21Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Do you mean he’s a great source for Elizabethan era propaganda? Studying history is about more than just looking at politics. But that aside, “What ideas and attitudes were acceptable in popular culture in the Elizabethan Era?” is an excellent historical topic. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/451 "2021-08-16T18:54:42Z")
How about simply: “I went to the local bathhouse last Saturday. (I decided not to go to one in America.)” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/452 "2021-08-16T18:56:31Z")
Does that convey the irony of not being allowed to leave Soviet Russia? ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/453 "2021-08-16T18:58:05Z")
I think it does to some extent. Probably no translation can adequately convey the original. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2021, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/454 "2021-08-17T23:25:28Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > “I went to the local bathhouse last Saturday. (I decided not to go to one in America.)” It fits - I’ll pencil that in. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/455 "2021-08-18T05:57:34Z")
His deciding not to is immaterial. He had absolutely no other option, hence the absurdity of his statement. The setting is vital. It’s Soviet Russia in the 1920s. He couldn’t have gone to America regardless of his status or finances. The Russian reader grasps this immediately and sees the irony. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/456 "2021-08-18T09:47:35Z")
Right. He may as well have said, “I decided not to go to one on Pluto.” ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/457 "2021-08-18T14:40:14Z")
That would have been _really_ confusing since Pluto wasn’t discovered until 1930. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/458 "2021-08-21T09:46:38Z")
It’s the translator’s responsibility to do just that. I sometimes write a sentence a half dozen ways (or more) before I’m satisfied with it. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/459 "2021-08-21T10:02:37Z")
You don’t think that _anything_ is untranslatable? How about poetry? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/460 "2021-08-21T19:31:45Z")
Poetry is a whole 'nother bag. You have to be a good poet in your own language to translate it well, and I’m not. If you have the talent for it, poetry can be translated well. An English friend once asked me to translate a poem by Emily Dickenson into Russian for her wedding to a Russian. I didn’t feel I was qualified, so I gave it to one of my Russian girlfriends who was fluent in English. She translated it beautifully, far better than I could have done. Both the literal meaning and the sentiment of the poem were conveyed perfectly. So it’s not impossible ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/461 "2021-08-21T20:03:11Z")
I should probably mention here that my girlfriend was highly literate. She had read _ **Les Misérables** _ (unabridged) as a child and was a graduate student at a pedagogical institute. ---
**Author:** ![Ziberian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/919ad9/32.png) [@Ziberian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ziberian)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/462 "2021-08-25T12:44:22Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I’d like to teach a course in translation sometime. In my experience, many professional translators seem to think all you have to do it take a word from one language and plug it into another. As I’m sure you know, it’s not that simple. The movie “The Interpreter”, which is about interpreters at the UN, makes this point very well – interpretation, not just translation. The interviews with real interpreters in the extras are fascinating – I am in awe of the language skills necessary to do real-time interpretation in such a setting. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575/463 "2021-08-25T15:30:11Z")
Simultaneous translation is a highly specialized skill, one at which I’m not qualified. (I can do consecutive translation, but not simultaneous.) When I was at Middlebury, I knew a woman who was a Staff Sergeant in the US Army. As soon as the intensive summer course was over, she was heading back to the Army Language School in Monterrey, CA, for training in simultaneous translation. I was in awe of her language skills. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-books-that-no-one-seems-to-like-what-are-we-missing/947575.md?page=22)