# Great Britain, England **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 24, 2002, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704 "2002-10-24T15:49:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![if\_you\_don\_t\_know\_i\_won\_t\_tell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/fbc32d/32.png) [@if\_you\_don\_t\_know\_i\_won\_t\_tell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if_you_don_t_know_i_won_t_tell)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/1 "2002-10-24T15:49:48Z")
I’m a young’n, but every one seems to know this besides me, so I thought I’d ask you guys. Why does Britian/Great Britian/England have so many names? Where do they come from? And, as a side curiousity, why do people refer to United States as “America”? There’s a whole bunch of other countries (North , and South of the US) that qualify as “America”. I’m just curious. 😕 Winning the Rat Race makes you the #1 Rat. The heart may control love, but the mind controls the heart. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/2 "2002-10-24T16:02:28Z")
Don’t worry about not knowing - a lot of people here in England don’t know either. The official name of the country, as it says on my passport, is “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”. So the UK = Great Britain + Northern Ireland (the southern part of Ireland is a separate country, called the Republic of Ireland). Now, Great Britain (the main island that makes up the rest of the UK) is made up of England, Scotland and Wales. So England is part of Great Britain, which is part of the United Kingdom. Got it? An Englishman is British, but a British person is not necessarily English - they could be Scottish, Welsh, or Northern Irish (and will no doubt tell you so if you make that mistake!) Note that the adjective “British” is used to describe Northern Irish citizens, even though NI is not technically part of Great Britain, because we don’t have an adjective “UKish”. It is all pretty confusing, I agree. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/3 "2002-10-24T16:06:16Z")
Here is a [handy little diagram](http://www.sayanna.com/images/british_isles.gif). ---
**Author:** ![if\_you\_don\_t\_know\_i\_won\_t\_tell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/fbc32d/32.png) [@if\_you\_don\_t\_know\_i\_won\_t\_tell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if_you_don_t_know_i_won_t_tell)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/4 "2002-10-24T16:09:01Z")
WHY ARE THEY SO COMPLICATED? Is that really necessary? Also, aren’t the people of Northern Ireland offended? I would be. ---
**Author:** ![G.Cornelius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@G.Cornelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G.Cornelius)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/5 "2002-10-24T16:11:25Z")
Thanks jjimm - a picture is worth a thousand words! ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/6 "2002-10-24T16:11:58Z")
And the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, however British they may be, are techically not part of the UK IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/7 "2002-10-24T16:19:39Z")
The reason _why_ all these names are valid is because the UK was created from a gradual confederation of places that had previously been separate countries. They kept their old names the same way the various US states kept their names after they joined the Union. Many people in Northern Ireland are _very_ offended to be called British, but I suppose this thread is not the right place to open such a can of worms. As to why people refer to the United States as “America”, it’s just a short form for the sake of speed and convenience. If I asked you what your nationality was would you say “I’m a United Statesian” or “I’m a United States of American”? I wonder how many people know that even United States is ambiguous? You might be talking about Brazil. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/8 "2002-10-24T16:43:37Z")
> [@](#): > > I wonder how many people know that even United States is ambiguous? You might be talking about Brazil. Or, even closer to home, Mexico. The official name of the country is “Los Estados Unidos Mexicanos” (The Mexican United States). ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/9 "2002-10-24T16:47:36Z")
As **everton** said - it’s just the way it is: it’s historical. Generally, people in Northern Ireland who agree that Northern Ireland should remain part of the UK are happy to be called British. Currently, these people are in the majority there. Those who believe Northern Ireland should be part of a united Ireland call themselves Irish, and some might indeed take offense. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/10 "2002-10-24T16:55:38Z")
“American” is the adjective which the US government _officially_ uses to describe things pertaining to the United States (“the American Ambassador”) just as “British” is officially used to describe things pertaining to the United Kingdom, even though in both cases it could be argued that the usage is incorrect. Nobody has been able to come up with better alternatives, because “United Kingdom” and “United States” don’t easily give rise to adjectives. ---
**Author:** ![StephenG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@StephenG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StephenG)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/11 "2002-10-24T17:29:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Floater \* > \*\*And the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, however British they may be, are techically not part of the UK IIRC. \*\* To sort of echo this pojnt, and perhaps expand on it: what are residents of these islands called? What country are they part of? Are they the same as citizens of Canada, Australia, etc. e.g. “Commonwealth citizens” or “Commonwealth residents”? (Yes, I very well understand the distinction between citizen and resident.) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/12 "2002-10-24T17:51:18Z")
Manx and Channel Islanders respectively. I think the status of these places is similar to that of, say, the Falkland Islands - they are not countries in their own right. The Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey are all “UK Crown Dependencies”, whereas the Falkland Islands are a “UK Overseas Territory”, but I’m not sure exactly what the difference is. ---
**Author:** ![if\_you\_don\_t\_know\_i\_won\_t\_tell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/fbc32d/32.png) [@if\_you\_don\_t\_know\_i\_won\_t\_tell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if_you_don_t_know_i_won_t_tell)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/13 "2002-10-24T18:02:49Z")
That is disturbing complicated, and my friends and I have been trying to come up with a word to use instead of “Americans” but to no avail. Oh, and might I suggest anyone who needs a laugh, read the “How to kill evil Nazi groundhogs” thread. I nearly fell out of my chair. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/14 "2002-10-24T18:16:41Z")
Well as **r\_k** said, there are even people who live here who haven’t got the hang of it yet. I s’pose that what happens when you live somewhere that’s been settled for a long time - there’s more to it than just adding stars to a flag. Some parts also have their own governments (like state legislatures). The parliament on the [Isle of Man](http://www.gov.im/) is over 1000 years old, which is something they’re quite proud of. Welcome aboard, btw. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/15 "2002-10-24T18:24:18Z")
I think I am correct on this - the same situation can be applied to the Netherlands. Many people call it Holland but technically that is just one part of a larger country. Other parts include Limburg and Friesland and probably others as well ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/16 "2002-10-24T18:28:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\*I wonder how many people know that even United States is ambiguous? You might be talking about Brazil. \*\* Actually, just because I’m the resident expert on Brazil, I must point out that Brazil’s full name is currently _A República Federativa do Brasil_ (The Federative Republic of Brazil). It used to be _Os Estados Unidos do Brasil_ (The United States of Brazil), but it has changed many times in their many political upheavals. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/17 "2002-10-24T19:42:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rayne Man \* > I think I am correct on this - the same situation can be applied to the Netherlands. Many people call it Holland but technically that is just one part of a larger country. Other parts include Limburg and Friesland and probably others as well Yes, I believe that’s why it’s called the Netherland **s** , plural. The [CIA Factbook](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/nl.html) lists 12 provinces including North and South Holland. More geographical weirdness? Well there are several places in England called Holland. (Thanks for that about Brazil, **Loopus** ) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/18 "2002-10-24T19:50:42Z")
> [@](#): > > More geographical weirdness? Well there are several places in England called Holland. I believe they are mostly in East Anglia, which historically had close links with Holland - in fact it’s said that it used to be considerably quicker to sail across the North Sea to Holland than to negotiate the fens to London. We’ve also got a New York, at least two Californias, a Washington and a Boston, of course… ---
**Author:** ![if\_you\_don\_t\_know\_i\_won\_t\_tell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/fbc32d/32.png) [@if\_you\_don\_t\_know\_i\_won\_t\_tell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/if_you_don_t_know_i_won_t_tell)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/19 "2002-10-24T19:56:39Z")
Thanks, I’ve been reading the threads for ages, I just never realized I could join. I also never realized what a Pandora’s Box I was opening! But it’s interesting, nonetheless. But something else geographical you all may be interested in- in NY, there’s a set of places called the Oranges- there’s a North Orange, and East Orange, a South Orange and a West Orange. I have several questions about that particular region you all may be able to answer. Why? Why on earth would anyone name a place “Orange”, and why on earth would someone split the area into 4 smaller areas and name them based on the geographical location of them? I’m not a New Yorkan, obviously, and perhaps that’s why I don’t understand. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_alien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9d8465/32.png) [@Go\_alien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_alien)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2002, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704/20 "2002-10-24T20:10:06Z")
The Orange could be related to New York’s Dutch ancestry (remember, it used to be called New Amsterdam). The Kingdom of the Netherlands was then (17th century) and still is ruled by the House of Orange. Just a WAG. Oh, and in England we have York, the orginal and genuine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-britain-england/133704.md?page=2)