# Great gun control commercial **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 18, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010 "2013-04-18T04:52:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/21 "2013-04-18T20:03:58Z")
Well, grudgingly and with a mild sense of discomfort. Mild I tells ya! ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/22 "2013-04-18T20:29:44Z")
The hyperbole is strong with this crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Molesworth\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@Molesworth\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Molesworth_2)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/23 "2013-04-18T20:38:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > We could ban high-capacity word processors, pop-up advertisements, and military-style “assault” commercials, require a background check and registration before people are allowed to own blog sites, etc. … or we could accept that the Constitution intended to cover the common tools of the day. Oh, FFS, but I’ll play along. Which of these things has killed the most innocent people? a) high-capacity word processors b) pop-up advertisements c) military-style “assault” commercials d) AR-15 semi-automatic rifles \ The correct answer is “d” The correct answer is “d” The correct answer is “d” The correct answer is “d” The correct answer is “d” The correct answer is “d” The correct answer is “d” The correct answer is “d” The correct answer is “d” The correct answer is “d” \ Your argument is a joke. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/24 "2013-04-18T20:48:41Z")
> [@Molesworth\_2](#): > > Oh, FFS, but I’ll play along. > > Which of these things has killed the most innocent people? > > a) high-capacity word processors > b) pop-up advertisements > c) military-style “assault” commercials > d) AR-15 semi-automatic rifles > > \ > > The correct answer is “d” > The correct answer is “d” > The correct answer is “d” > The correct answer is “d” > The correct answer is “d” > The correct answer is “d” > The correct answer is “d” > The correct answer is “d” > The correct answer is “d” > The correct answer is “d” > > \ > > Your argument is a joke. You didn’t address his argument, which is that Constitutional rights apply to the tools of today, rather than at the moment of ratification. From D.C. v Heller: > [@](#): > > Some have made the argument, bordering on the frivolous, that only those arms in existence in the 18th century are protected by the Second Amendment. We do not interpret constitutional rights that way. Just as the First Amendment protects modern forms of communications, e.g., Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U. S. 844, 849 (1997), and the Fourth Amendment applies to modern forms of search, e.g., Kyllo v. United States, 533 U. S. 27, 35–36 (2001), the Second Amendment extends, prima facie, to all instruments that constitute bearable arms, even those that were not in existence at the time of the founding. I would wager that the published works of Marx have resulted in more deaths than AR-15s, as it happens. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/25 "2013-04-18T20:53:14Z")
Guy can’t aim worth shit. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/26 "2013-04-18T21:26:40Z")
It seems to me, the issue here is that both sides are making ridiculous arguments. Other than the few extremists who either want ALL guns banned or ALL forms of weapons, everyone is in favor of some reasonable “common sense” restrictions on guns. You’re not going to find very many in favor of an individual right to purchase, transport, and possess nuclear weapons, but you’re not going to find many people saying we should ban a simple revolver or hunting rifle. Instead, we have people saying we need some restriction because of the latest shooting, and then the opponents saying we can’t because of second amendment rights, and we rarely actually get down to the actual merits, or lack thereof, of the proposed laws. And we DO have these sorts of debates related to the First Amendment, we just don’t often have the knee-jerk reaction of “OMG DEAD KIDS” or “OMG 2ND AMENDMENT”. For instance, you’re not going to find many people saying we should allow death threats, or many people saying we should require a license to send email. But in the last 20 years we’ve had plenty of First Amendment speech issues related to the internet, SOPA and PIPA being one of the recent well known issues and how it would affect internet censorship. We also have First Amendment issues related to religion, though those often involve knee-jerk reactions too. Anyway, I’d rather us stop with ridiculous analogies and knee-jerk reactions, we have to realize that, even for two people that generally have similar points of few, that what constitutes “common sense” laws between no guns and no restrictions isn’t going to be in the same place. Further, even if we can agree that changes need to be made, whether it’s increasing or reducing restrictions, the factors by which two different people will evaluate it are different. Ultimately, all this sort of stuff does is cause BOTH sides to dig in harder, get more contentious, and that increased contention just leaves the people sitting on the fence looking at both sides as foolish. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/27 "2013-04-18T21:31:00Z")
> [@Molesworth\_2](#): > > Oh, FFS, but I’ll play along. > > Which of these things has killed the most innocent people? > > a) high-capacity word processors > b) pop-up advertisements > c) military-style “assault” commercials > d) AR-15 semi-automatic rifles > > … So are you arguing that we should ban stuff that wasn’t legal / didn’t exist in 1787, or are you arguing that we should ban “things [that have] killed the most innocent people”? If it’s the latter, I doubt that AR-15’s even crack into the top 10. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/28 "2013-04-18T21:35:06Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > … we rarely actually get down to the actual merits, or lack thereof, of the proposed laws. That’s because many on the gun-ban side don’t understand even the basic broad outlines of current gun laws. How are we supposed to have a worthwhile conversation on the lack of merits of their proposed laws? ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/29 "2013-04-18T21:35:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No. American “gun control” is a joke. The pro-gun people don’t care of course because they are tools of the gun industry and fanatic borderline psychopaths with no concern for human life. If it comes down to a choice between guns and their friends and family, they’ll cheerfully sacrifice the lives of their children for the only thing that matters in the entire universe: guns. You don’t actually know any gun owners, do you? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/30 "2013-04-18T21:36:52Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Guy can’t aim worth shit. But his three cousins could make you die laughing! ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/31 "2013-04-18T21:47:18Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Guy can’t aim worth shit. He just needs to follow through with a bayonet. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/32 "2013-04-18T22:14:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > He just needs to follow through with a bayonet. Way he shoots, he should _start_ with a bayonet. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/33 "2013-04-19T01:22:32Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Other than the few extremists who either want ALL guns banned or ALL forms of weapons Who on this board is in favor of permitting all forms of weapons? I can probably point out a few that would like to ban all guns. Both sides are not equally extreme. > [@](#): > > but you’re not going to find many people saying we should ban a simple revolver or hunting rifle. Wanna bet? > [@](#): > > Instead, we have people saying we need some restriction because of the latest shooting, and then the opponents saying we can’t because of second amendment rights, and we rarely actually get down to the actual merits, or lack thereof, of the proposed laws. As long as you put somebody like Feinstein in charge of your campaign against gun violence, you are not going to reassure many people that undermining the second amendment isn’t the ultimate goal. When an AWB is the first idea out of the gate and this retarded idea is parroted by the President of the United States, you can never get to the merits because you realize you are dealing with someone that is either lying or stupid. > [@](#): > > Ultimately, all this sort of stuff does is cause BOTH sides to dig in harder, get more contentious, and that increased contention just leaves the people sitting on the fence looking at both sides as foolish. The one factor that tips this debate is that there is a constitutional amendment protecting the right to keep and bear arms and until the emotional appeals of tragedies like Newtown can sway 2/3rds of both houses and the legislatures of 38 states, you are pretty much stuck with that right to keep and bear arms. And when you undermine one constitutionally protected right, you undermine the sanctity of all of them. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > He just needs to follow through with a bayonet. Bayonet lugs would make them assault weapons and Feinstein would ban them. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Way he shoots, he should _start_ with a bayonet. > 🙂 muzzleloaders are notoriously inaccurate, there is no rifling. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/34 "2013-04-19T01:24:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No. American “gun control” is a joke. The pro-gun people don’t care of course because they are tools of the gun industry and fanatic borderline psychopaths with no concern for human life. If it comes down to a choice between guns and their friends and family, they’ll cheerfully sacrifice the lives of their children for the only thing that matters in the entire universe: guns. This rant seems eerily similar to what the truth teller from the DPRK was preaching [in this thread,](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=688351) except for the lack of pig dogs. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/35 "2013-04-19T02:03:54Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Wanna bet? Someone wants to ban all semi automatic weapons, including the .22 Marlins kids get for their birthday. [quote=“Damuri\_Ajashi, post:33, topic:656010”] > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The one factor that tips this debate is that there is a constitutional amendment protecting the right to keep and bear arms and until the emotional appeals of tragedies like Newtown can sway 2/3rds of both houses and the legislatures of 38 states, you are pretty much stuck with that right to keep and bear arms. Or the Supreme Court decides it means having a state National Guard. 🙂 > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > muzzleloaders are notoriously inaccurate, there is no rifling. The guy was twelve feet away. It has a rather long barrel, that may have been a rifle. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/36 "2013-04-19T02:32:01Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Other than the few extremists who either want ALL guns banned or ALL forms of weapons, everyone is in favor of some reasonable “common sense” restrictions on guns. Well, I could suggest that all guns except for revolvers and lever-, bolt- or pump-action long guns be banned, and any gun not banned is also completely unregulated, available for purchase by anyone at any time. Reasonable? Just spitballing, here. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/37 "2013-04-19T05:01:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I could suggest that all guns except for revolvers and lever-, bolt- or pump-action long guns be banned, and any gun not banned is also completely unregulated, available for purchase by anyone at any time. I appreciate the effort that you’re taking in making an actual compromise. That’s a great start. On the specifics of this offer, I’d not be inclined to support it. I truly don’t want bad guys to have guns, and if I understand this proposal correctly, every mentally-ill person or fresh-from-prison felon would be able to obtain one, right? Also, I’m not ready to give up all semi-autos. My Glock is an exceptional self-defense weapon, and I’d prefer to keep it. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/38 "2013-04-19T05:28:00Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I think it’s quite effective. No, it’s quite a lie is what it is! Gun laws have changed numerous times in significant ways over the years. Every time it was going to be the panacea to solving violence. None of them did squat! But guns, in the abstract, haven’t changed. Machine guns, semi-automatics, and high capacity magazines have all been around for over 100 years. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/39 "2013-04-19T05:42:33Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Or the Supreme Court decides it means having a state National Guard. 🙂 Well, there is that. > [@](#): > > The guy was twelve feet away. It has a rather long barrel, that may have been a rifle. I don’t know much about black powder guns, but I figure that rifling would get mucked up if you are pouring powder down the barrel and I thought black powder burned a lot dirtier (left more residue) than faster burning gun powder. I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2013, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010/40 "2013-04-19T11:32:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, I could suggest that all guns except for revolvers and lever-, bolt- or pump-action long guns be banned, and any gun not banned is also completely unregulated, available for purchase by anyone at any time. > Reasonable? Nah, no gun should be completely unregulated, they need to be kept out of the hands of the criminal and the mentally ill. > [@Damuri Ajashi](#): > > I don’t know much about black powder guns, but I figure that rifling would get mucked up if you are pouring powder down the barrel and I thought black powder burned a lot dirtier (left more residue) than faster burning gun powder. > > I could be wrong. Behold the “assault weapon” of its day, the [rifle musket](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifled_musket). The [Springfield Model 1861](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Springfield_1861) is a typical example. They fired a Minie ball, which is small enough to be dropped down the muzzle, but expands upon firing to fill the rifling grooves and produce an accurate shot. Black powder is very dirty, and such weapons must be cleaned often to stay operable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-gun-control-commercial/656010.md?page=3)