# Great History... or Greatest History? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 23, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772 "2009-06-23T22:02:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kevlaw](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kevlaw/32/2281_2.png) [@kevlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevlaw)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772/61 "2009-06-26T23:52:54Z")
As an Englishman, I can’t help but feel a rush of pride at all the votes for my country but I am humbled when I look at timelines that show how long the Egyptians ran the show or, say, the Minoans or the Sumerians. [http://www.timelines.info/history/empires\_and\_civilizations/ancient\_civilisations/](http://www.timelines.info/history/empires_and_civilizations/ancient_civilisations/) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772/62 "2009-06-27T04:54:39Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I would say that the greatest civilization should be judged not by the reach of their military or financial empire but by the greatness of the people and ideas they produce. > > I would say that in recent history that has been India with Ghandi … Need I point out the Gandhi (not Ghandi dammit) was born a British subject ? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772/63 "2009-06-29T21:13:32Z")
[QUOTE=kevlaw] As an Englishman, I can’t help but feel a rush of pride at all the votes for my country but I am humbled when I look at timelines that show how long the Egyptians ran the show or, say, the Minoans or the Sumerians. [/QUOTE] Quantity vs quality, IMHO. 😉 Again, it all depends on what one means by ‘Greatest History’. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772/64 "2009-06-30T05:44:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > The United Kingdom is not a republic or else it wouldn’t be called “The United Kingdom.” > > I’m not sure what being a republic has to do with anything. Cuba is a republic, Australia is not; which is more democratic? I’m not following your reasoning for preferring labels over reality. Reality trumps all in everything I can think of. If you want to say that the UK is a monarchy, then go ahead, but so long as we’re agreed that I would call it a Republic and you understand my reasoning, then you should be able to take my point. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772/65 "2009-06-30T20:22:29Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > That is all true, but the government of India is still quite repressive in some cases with police beatings a normal every day occurrence. I don’t think that Gandhi ended up encapsulating the gestalt of the Indian state. His kin certainly did not live up to his example. > > Jesus and Mohammed were individuals yes, but there is a long history based upon what they started. With India that history is still rather nascent. They fed Christians to the lions for Jesus. I think Gandhi’s influence has spread far beyond India into South Africa, America, everywhere people fight societal injustice through peaceful means. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2009, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772/66 "2009-06-30T20:26:03Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Need I point out the Gandhi (not Ghandi dammit) was born a British subject ? Yes, and Jesus was a part of the Roman empire as well. =) To be fair, Gandhi got his sense of justice from British law schools that applied principles of justice fairly well in Britain. Then he saw the version of British justice that was applied in the colonies. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772/67 "2009-07-02T18:39:04Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I think the winner really is The Jews. More than half of the world refers to their ancient texts to found the basis of their culture. So the Jews have the greatest history because their history dominates the histories of both Christianity and Islam. Reminds me of that famous Disraeli quote; “Yes, I am a Jew and when the ancestors of the right honourable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon.” I also vote Egypt, Italy (Roman Empire + Renaissance), China. Not necessarily in that order. ---
**Author:** ![wintertime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c68b51/32.png) [@wintertime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wintertime)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772/68 "2009-07-02T21:49:37Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Reminds me of that famous Disraeli quote; > “Yes, I am a Jew and when the ancestors of the right honourable gentleman were brutal savages in an unknown island, mine were priests in the temple of Solomon.” Which wasn’t unjustified when it was said, but latest archeological findings strongly suggest the existence of some high cultures very early in Europe that were totally unknown to us twenty years ago, are still pretty obscure but not so much that anyone knowledgeable can still seriously evoke the image of a backwater region when the middle east was already civilized. As usual, our history was likely much more complex than we have come to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772/69 "2009-07-04T15:15:35Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Need I point out the Gandhi (not Ghandi dammit) was born a British subject ? And he also said himself that his tactics would have only worked against someone as benevolent in nature as the English. I dont think that he would have been so effective against the Nazis or the Soviets or the Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2009, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772/70 "2009-07-06T07:29:10Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > And he also said himself that his tactics would have only worked against someone as benevolent in nature as the English. > > I dont think that he would have been so effective against the Nazis or the Soviets or the Chinese. You think it would work against the Zionists? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772/71 "2009-07-07T15:40:50Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Interesting point about the history, though. I had thought the Qin dynasty was earlier than that, compared to Greece and Rome. That’s because of the compartmentalized way history is taught. We open a chapter on China and it’s all about China, out of any global context, until we get to a chapter on labor unions or Reconstruction, which are ALSO taken out of any context. Sometimes I wonder if this is done intentionally to reduce a sense of competition, so to speak – so ethnic one group of kids won’t be saying, “our people had gunpowder before yours had the wheel!” Sometimes I think it’s just laziness. But whatever the reason, it’s very disorienting. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2009, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772/72 "2009-07-07T15:43:34Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > And he also said himself that his tactics would have only worked against someone as benevolent in nature as the English. > > I dont think that he would have been so effective against the Nazis or the Soviets or the Chinese. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > You think it would work against the Zionists? Tom Clancy does. In his novel, _The Sum of All Their Fears_, the moment the Palestinian youths lie down in front of the Israelis and begin chanting peacefully, provoking a harsh Israeli response, one of Clancy’s American characters thinks, “They’ve _finally_ found the way to destroy Israel!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-history-or-greatest-history/500772.md?page=3)