# Great Ineffectual Film Heroes **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 1, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416 "2005-06-01T18:23:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Orual](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/41 "2005-06-02T13:31:00Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > So what you guys are saying is that 20 years from now Lucas is going to be doing Episodes VII, VIII, and IX, and claiming that all along it’s really been his intention for the entire nine-movie series to be the story of Lando Calrissian? Quiet, you. You’ll only give him ideas… ---
**Author:** ![Stonebow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Stonebow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stonebow)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/42 "2005-06-02T13:31:02Z")
Tomb Raider parts 1 and 2. She’s the only one able to get to the Most Powerful Object Ever ™…if she tells the bad guys to go pound sand when they ask her to find it, that’s the end of the movie. So what if the butler gets killed? ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/43 "2005-06-02T13:31:10Z")
> [@Orual](#): > > I would say that Spike got exactly what he wanted. True, but he wanted that only because of his unhappiness at what had gone before. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/44 "2005-06-02T13:40:00Z")
> [@Case Sensitive](#): > > Cole in **12 Monkeys** : sent back in time to prevent the Army Of The Twelve Monkeys spreading the apocalyptic plague virus, but despite his kick-arse tough guy skills, he only manages to… > > watch himself being shot, from the POV of his younger self: meanwhile, the vials of virus get carried onto the plane and spread around the globe. Nothing to do with The Army Of The Twelve Monkeys, you see. Bad intelligence. Cole’s mission was never to prevent the virus from being released. Doing that would alter the timeline and prevent the future he’s from. The scientists who sent him only want Cole to obtain a pure specimen of the virus so that they can develop a vaccine and retake the surface world of the future. Through his actions and various messages (especially “It wasn’t the Army Of The Twevlve Monkeys that released the virus. It was some one else.”) Cole directs the scientists to the man who actually released the virus. We see the female scientist speaking to the man who’s releasing the virus just before the film ends. She says “I’m in insurance.”. Cole’s mission has been a success. His job was not to alter the past. It was to get the scientists a pure specimen of the virus so that a vaccine could be made and humanity could have a future Re Big Trouble In Little China Absolutely. Jack uses a knife in his boot to kill a guard. He ends up stuck under the body for the rest of that battle. Jack acts macho and fires his gun into the air. Large chunks of the ceiling fall on him, knocking him unconscious. Jack has a chance to kill Lo Pan while his troops and personal bodyguards are elsewhere. Jack misses quite badly. Jack Burton definitely has some heroic skills, but he’s a comedy sidekick. Re The Thing My friends and I love this film. Besides being unable to save themselves, there’s a question as to whether Macready and the rest accomplished anything. The Norwegian camp contained several corpses which appear to be frozen Things. Wilford Brimley observed that burning didn’t destroy the Thing and that the specimen they burned was still alive. When the base doesn’t make its scheduled reports, somebody will be sent to investigate. As soon as they thaw one of the frozen Things, it can take over the investigative team and head for the mainland. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/45 "2005-06-02T14:57:00Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > Precisely, though that must have been added to the plot later, since if you see the off-cuts Jack does much more fighting and is much more effective. I love that they cut that so he just gets to swagger arround pretending to be tough with lipstick smered on his lips. Get the DVD. Carpenter and Russel talk about how the central joke of the movie is that Jack is not the hero he thinks he is but just the comedy side-kick. The movie is told from his point of view. They weren’t sure the studio or the audience would go a movie from that point of view. But another is \*\*Jack Skellington \*\* He does not steal Christmas. The guys in **Bridge on the River Kwai**. Bridge fall down. In **Jurassic Park** , nobody knows about Nedry stealing the embryos or why the fences failed. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/46 "2005-06-02T15:31:00Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > The guys in **Bridge on the River Kwai**. Bridge fall down. > > In **Jurassic Park** , nobody knows about Nedry stealing the embryos or why the fences failed. It’s been a while, but I think they figured out pretty early that Nedry sabotaged the fences. I don’t think they made the connection to the embryos, but it didn’t matter since he didn’t get off the island and they had to abandon everything there anyway. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/47 "2005-06-02T15:32:49Z")
> [@Zebra](#): > > The guys in **Bridge on the River Kwai**. Bridge fall down. > . Actually, they both get what they want. Alex Guiness gets to finish the bridge his way and the other guy gets to blow it up. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/48 "2005-06-02T15:34:47Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > **Cowboy Bebop.** Virtually nothing turns out right in the end for Spike, Faye, Ed, Ein, or Jet. But that doesn’t mean nothing was accomplished. They did (directly or not) cause the deaths of numerous criminals(Mad Pierre, the Woody Allen lookalike in “Heavy Metal Queen”, the gang in “Venus Waltz”, the Pirates in “Wild Horses”), which sucks from their point of view because they can’t collect the bounty, but the solar system is probably not going to miss them. They also captured the hijackers in Venus Waltz and the Teddy Bear Bomber in Cowboy Funk. Spike got rid of Vicious, which is quite an accomplishment right there. And vicious was a pretty nasty guy. And of course, stopped the Plague in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/49 "2005-06-02T15:35:38Z")
_The Destruction of Jared Sin_ He survives. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/50 "2005-06-02T16:06:08Z")
About time someone mentioned the greatest and most ineffectual film hero of them all, the Dude, Jeff Lebowski. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/51 "2005-06-02T16:11:37Z")
**Independence Day** - all Jeff Goldblum did was upload a computer virus- any 14 year old computer literate kid could have done that. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/52 "2005-06-02T18:11:34Z")
Starsky and Hutch [spoiler]In the final scenes, Starsky and Hutch are in a big car chase after the bad guy. He makes it to his yacht and sails away taunting them. S&H have a bonding moment and then race down the pier to hurdle their car into the yacht and catch the bad guy. They miss and their car sinks. S&H tread water as the bad guy sails away to freedom. Then Huggy Bear, who was hiding on the boat the whole time, knocks out the bad guy and saves the day.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/53 "2005-06-02T18:34:15Z")
I’ll nominate “Speed” for a different reason. During the course of the movie, Keenu manages to blow up a cargo plane (and likely the pilot) and destroy an entire subway train (again, likely with casualties). His partner gets blowed up along with a bunch of other agents. Total damage – probably in the 10’s of millions. Would have been cheaper just to pay the damn ransom. Yet at the end of the movie, he’s sucking face with Sandra Bullock – just another job well done. And while it’s not a movie, I sort have to nominate Ringworld by Larry Niven as one of the more futile adventures: The entire plot is “fall onto Ringworld, travel hundreds of thousands of miles, return to starting place and leave.” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/54 "2005-06-02T18:43:41Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > And while it’s not a movie, I sort have to nominate Ringworld by Larry Niven as one of the more futile adventures: The entire plot is “fall onto Ringworld, travel hundreds of thousands of miles, return to starting place and leave.” Hey, now. The mission wasn’t “save the world.” It was “explore the Ringworld.” Mission accomplished, and if they hadn’t gone, it wouldn’t have happened. Plus, in the long run, the Ringworld _would_ have been destroyed, so nyah. ---
**Author:** ![Try\_As\_I\_Might](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Try\_As\_I\_Might](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try_As_I_Might)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/55 "2005-06-02T18:49:29Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > **Independence Day** - all Jeff Goldblum did was upload a computer virus- any 14 year old computer literate kid could have done that. especially when the aliens use macs! :smack: Talking about 14 year old hackers, how about Jurassic Park? If I recall correctly, the only reason they lived was because T-rex showed up for a little veloci-snack. (of course I could be mistaken–that was the only movie about dinosaurs eating people that almost put me to sleep.) ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/56 "2005-06-02T18:55:01Z")
On a slightly different theme, Yossarian from **Catch 22** was aggressively ineffectual. That was the point, true, but still. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/57 "2005-06-02T18:59:10Z")
> [@Case Sensitive](#): > > Cole in **12 Monkeys** : sent back in time to prevent the Army Of The Twelve Monkeys spreading the apocalyptic plague virus, but despite his kick-arse tough guy skills, he only manages to… > > watch himself being shot, from the POV of his younger self: meanwhile, the vials of virus get carried onto the plane and spread around the globe. Nothing to do with The Army Of The Twelve Monkeys, you see. Bad intelligence. IIRC, The virus was spread in the airport when security asked the man to open the container carrying the virus. Aboard the plane, however, was a woman from the future, there for ‘insurance’ who also, ultimately, failed because she was too late. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/58 "2005-06-02T19:34:02Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > IIRC, The virus was spread in the airport when security asked the man to open the container carrying the virus. Aboard the plane, however, was a woman from the future, there for ‘insurance’ who also, ultimately, failed because she was too late. I suspect he had more then one vial there, or else why go to all those destinations, and why would the virus break out in all those places in that same order(as cole read off earlier). Anyway, the whole point wasn’t to stop him, but get a sample. I assume she manages to grab a sample or two when Apocolypse Nut is in the Bathroom, or goes to sleep ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/59 "2005-06-02T19:36:53Z")
> [@Try As I Might...](#): > > > [@Sampiro](#): > > > > **Independence Day** - all Jeff Goldblum did was upload a computer virus- any 14 year old computer literate kid could have done that. > > especially when the aliens use macs! :smack: Use a Mac to infect a Mac; makes sense, especially since there’s no chance a 14-year-old Windows Script Kiddy can do _that._🆒 ---
**Author:** ![badbadrubberpiggy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/57b2e6/32.png) [@badbadrubberpiggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badbadrubberpiggy)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416/60 "2005-06-02T19:47:22Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > **Independence Day** - all Jeff Goldblum did was upload a computer virus- any 14 year old computer literate kid could have done that. I never thought he was the hero, though. The Randy Quaid character was the real hero, along with Will Smith. I haven’t seen it in awhile, but IIRC, they needed the pilots to get the virus into the plane in the first place. Randy Quaid died saving America dammit…the world, I mean! Not just America! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-ineffectual-film-heroes/306416.md?page=4)