# Great (lesser known) Trials in Science Fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 27, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465 "2005-03-27T16:17:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/1 "2005-03-27T16:17:36Z")
We all know blockbusters like The Firm or Twelve Angry Men. They take place in the modern American courtroom, where defense lawyers bark “Objection!” and the witnesses cry at the stand. What we don’t hear about are the poor, beleaguered residents of Planet X, suing the megacorp InterGalaxial Mining over the rights of their _chalocal_ deposits. So I want to hear about them. The wackier the better. For example, in Czerneda’s Trade Pact Universe trilogy, the main character sits trial on charges of corrupting their species. The outcome of the trial is pretty easily foreseen, but what I found intriguing is that the judges could “hear” her emotions. Those emotions were used as evidence to her intent and guilt. Would this stand in an American court? How would the rules change if emotions could be heard? Can emotions be easily misinterpreted by a jury? I think the trials in science fiction could be studied as science fiction is usually studied; a what-if scenario, an outstretching of imagination. What is your favorite trial? ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/2 "2005-03-27T16:31:59Z")
[Trial of a Time Lord:](http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/doctorwho/episodeguide/trialtimelord1/) ‘I would appreciate it if these violent and repetitious scenes could be kept to a minimum.’ Best. Clipshow. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/3 "2005-03-27T16:36:45Z")
Okay, this is skirting the definition of science fiction, but in _Blameless in Abaddon_ by James Morrow, God is put on trial. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/4 "2005-03-27T17:42:45Z")
Humanity goes on trial in **Have Space Suit - Will Travel**. Great scene. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/5 "2005-03-27T17:52:34Z")
The competency hearing of Jerry, in _Jerry Was a Man_, by Robert Heinlein. Two intertwined trials, in Little Fuzzy, by H. Beam Piper. One was a hearing to determine if the Fuzzies were a sapient race, and, if they were, a man who had killed one would be up on charges of murder. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/6 "2005-03-27T18:04:35Z")
James T. Kirk was put on trial for negligence in the death of a crewman. Attorney James Cogley for the defence. Another Start Trek trial determined if Data was a person or not. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/7 "2005-03-27T18:30:35Z")
Frank Herbert’s _The Dosadi Experiment_ had a huge alien courtroom trial for its climax. ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/8 "2005-03-27T18:34:17Z")
**Bosda** , if corporations can be “people,” it seems reasonable to have Data be one. How did that trial go? What kind of questions were raised? I’d forgotten about **Have Space Suit** , thanks for reminding me! I’ll have to pick it up from the library and reread it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/9 "2005-03-27T18:40:50Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > James T. Kirk was put on trial for negligence in the death of a crewman. > Attorney James Cogley for the defence. > > Another Start Trek trial determined if Data was a person or not. And in “The Cage” (the original series pilot reworked as a double episode with flashbacks), Spock was on trial (for his life) for the crime of taking the Enterprise to Talos IV. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/10 "2005-03-27T18:48:08Z")
In Illegal Aliens, by Phil Foglio, there’s a trial. A big one, for the future of all mankind. ---
**Author:** ![nocturnal\_tick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@nocturnal\_tick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nocturnal_tick)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/11 "2005-03-27T18:52:06Z")
> [@Elysian](#): > > **Bosda** , if corporations can be “people,” it seems reasonable to have Data be one. How did that trial go? What kind of questions were raised? Not to push **Bosda** out of the way but the argument for was that Data, being a machine, was the property of Starfleet and therefore required to be dismantled and studied to replicate the technology. The argument against was that Data was “sentient”, not a person. IIRC, it ended with the admiral holding the court deciding that while Data is a machine, he is entitled to make his own decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/12 "2005-03-27T19:00:42Z")
I like one comment that admiral made. I haven’t seen the episode in a while, but she said something like “The issure we are all dancing around here is ‘Does Data have a soul?’” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/13 "2005-03-27T19:06:09Z")
I shouldn’t go into these threads. They make my head hurt from pounding it against the wall. James Morrow’s _Blameless in Abaddon_ is not “stretching the definition” of science fiction, it is the very essence of what real science fiction is all about. And that has nothing to do with spaceships and everything to do with concepts. The silly notion that corporations are “people” has reached the status of a true urban legend. They aren’t, although under some conditions they can be treated equivalently for certain legal purposes. And if you think Morrow doesn’t write science fiction, your head will spin right around when I tell you of Parke Godwin’s wonderful _The Snake Oil Wars_. > [@](#): > > From Publishers Weekly > Godwin follows his brash and brittle satire, Waiting for the Galactic Bus , with an all-out attack on evangelists. Elaborating on Galactic 's premise that intelligent life on Earth resulted from the caprices of two bored, alien schoolboys, Barion and Coyul, this sequel proposes an afterlife vaguely modeled on Christian visions of heaven and hell. Preacher Lance Candor throws a bomb at Coyul, whom many humans suppose to be the Devil. The ensuing trial becomes a media event, a circus of demagoguery and a forum for Godwin’s mouthpieces to argue that any intrusion of the church into affairs of state violates the freedoms granted by the American Constitution. Godwin’s tart humor resonates through his burgeoning cast of caricatures and celebrity walk-ons: a barely disguised L. Ron Hubbard is incarnated as an answering machine; Dorothy Parker ghost-writes the autobiography of a Tammy Bakker stand-in; and prosecutor Abraham Lincoln, incognito here as Joshua Speed (and described as “an ugly Henry Fonda”), calls Jesus as an expert witness. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/14 "2005-03-27T19:24:46Z")
The Q Continuum puts Humanity on trial in the first show of _Star Trek: The Next enerationG_ and in the series finale we are informed Humanity remains on trial. In Frank Herbert’s _The White Plague_, a sham trial is the focus of the last third of the story. In _Dune_, the Padishaw Emperor holds court at the end. (Not a real trial as we are familiar with, more of a gathering of royals and whot not.) In TOS, the premise of _Arena_ (which is an adaptation from an earlier story by Fredric Brown) is a trial of sorts. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/15 "2005-03-27T19:31:47Z")
Isaac Asimov’s _Foundation_ series opened with Hari Seldon’s trial. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/16 "2005-03-27T20:27:32Z")
The trial of Roj Blake in the 1st episode of _Blake’s 7_ on trumped up charges. The Doctor has been put on trial by the Timelords at least four times. _The War Games, The Deadly Assassin, Arc of Infinity_ (sort of) and _Trial of a Timelord._ and a few trials on other planets too. In the musical _Time_ the Human Race was put on trial, and commanded by God to justify their continued existence. In _Red Dwarf_ a robot called _The Inquisitor_ tried everyone in history to see if they were worthy of existing. Those found unworthy were erased and replaced. Fry & Leela were put on trial in an episode of _Futurama_ in a great spoof of spock’s trial. ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/17 "2005-03-27T21:36:35Z")
> [@Exapno Mapcase](#): > > The silly notion that corporations are “people” has reached the status of a true urban legend. They aren’t, although under some conditions they can be treated equivalently for certain legal purposes. Yes, and they are treated equivalently in the Mergers and Acquisitions class I am taking, and the Corporate Law class I took, and the Civil Procedure class, and Property, etc. Since we are talking here about a "person’ (Data) being on trial, I think it is reasonable to talk about corporations being treated as “people,” or legal entities, during a trial as well. It is a fiction, **Exapno** , and that’s why I was talking about it, because Data being a person would also be fiction, wouldn’t it? Do you not agree with this analogy at all? Sorry to make your head hurt. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/18 "2005-03-27T22:49:44Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > In _Dune_, the Padishaw Emperor holds court at the end. (Not a real trial as we are familiar with, more of a gathering of royals and whot not.) Actually, that ended with an actual trial (by combat) between Feyd-Rautha Harkonnen and Paul Atreides. ---
**Author:** ![Khan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ab097/32.png) [@Khan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/19 "2005-03-27T22:52:07Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > The Q Continuum puts Humanity on trial in the first show of _Star Trek: The Next enerationG_ and in the series finale we are informed Humanity remains on trial. And as it turns out, the longsest scifi trial in history, seven whole seasons. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/20 "2005-03-27T22:52:14Z")
> [@nocturnal\_tick](#): > > Not to push **Bosda** out of the way but the argument for was that Data, being a machine, was the property of Starfleet and therefore required to be dismantled and studied to replicate the technology. The argument against was that Data was “sentient”, not a person. IIRC, it ended with the admiral holding the court deciding that while Data is a machine, he is entitled to make his own decisions. If I had been Data’s lawyer in that case, I also would have argued the alternative theory that if he was property, he belonged to the estate of his maker, Noonian Soong, not Starfleet. I might even have sued Starfleet on the Soong Estate’s behalf, to compensate them for his use all those years. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465.md?page=2)