# Great (lesser known) Trials in Science Fiction **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 27, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465 "2005-03-27T16:17:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/61 "2005-03-28T23:19:39Z")
> [@Saltire](#): > > [Actually, I think I now remember an episode in which Duras has a son, who petitions a Klingon court to restore his families honor. He didn’t win. Don’t recall the kid being offed, so I suppose there may be one dishonored soul left in the family.] [There is](http://www.memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Toral%2C_son_of_Duras). As of the DS9 episode “The Sword of Kahless”, Toral is still alive and free. Also, if I recall correctly, one of the clues that leads Worf to the realization that K’Mtar is the future Alexander is the appearance of a dagger with the crest of the House of Duras. When he confronts Lursa and B’etor with it, they’re shocked because the crest isn’t theirs, but the crest that the elder sister’s firstborn son would hold as an adult, indicating that there are more in Toral’s generation of the family. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/62 "2005-03-28T23:20:41Z")
Uber-duh on me… The second paragraph in my last post is about the TNG episode “Firstborn”. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/63 "2005-03-28T23:41:51Z")
> [@SkipMagic](#): > > In _The Transformers: The Movie_, both Kup and Hot Rod were put on trial by the Quintessons. They were judged “Innocent” and then sent to their doom to the hungry Sharkticons below. > > They escaped. Correction– They got busted out by the Dinobots. I love that film, despite its flaws. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2005, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/64 "2005-03-28T23:43:10Z")
Rounding out the Trek trials (at least until someone remembers any I’m missing) there was Wesley’s trial (or was it tribunal? hearing?) in “The First Duty” for attempting an unauthorized manuever leading to the death of a colleugue and the ensuing cover up. And Worf stood trial again for apparently destroying a Klingon civilian ship in “Rules of Engagement” And besides ST6, Kirk stood trial in “Court Martial” and ST4:TVH Captain Archer was tried by the Klingons too in “Judgement” Star Trek loves trials apparently. Perhaps the next spin-off should be Star Trek: Trial by Jury ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/65 "2005-03-29T01:15:15Z")
> [@Saltire](#): > > Actually, I think I now remember an episode in which Duras has a son, who petitions a Klingon court to restore his families honor. He didn’t win. Don’t recall the kid being offed, so I suppose there may be one dishonored soul left in the family.] If it’s the episode I’m thinking of, Toral (manipulated by his aunts, Lursa and B’Etor) was petitioning to be named Imperial Chancellor – i.e., that he was heir to his father Duras’ claim on the position. Picard, called in to arbitrate, ruled against him on the grounds of his youth, precipitating the Civil War between the Duras and Gowron factions. So it wasn’t exactly a “trial,” more a political arbitration. ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/66 "2005-03-29T03:18:53Z")
Thank you, everyone who participated in this thread! It’s really great to get so many responses to my question. I love this board. I am now going to rent _The Transformers_, because it sounds too silly to be true. If I hate it I’m holding you people responsible 😉 ---
**Author:** ![JoeSki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b487fb/32.png) [@JoeSki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeSki)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/67 "2005-03-29T05:48:06Z")
My favorite episode of **The Twilight Zone** , titled The Obsolete Man, was about a man on trial after having been accused of being obsolete as a human librarian, inferior to the robots in charge of the world he lived in. Great dialgue. My favorite bit: > [@](#): > > The problem with Hitler and Stalin wasn’t that they took their politics too far, but _that they did not take them far e-nough!_ Eviiiiiiil. ---
**Author:** ![RobuSensei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/919ad9/32.png) [@RobuSensei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobuSensei)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/68 "2005-03-29T06:13:41Z")
I _can’t believe_ no one’s mentioned this one: In _Life, the Universe, and Everything,_ by Douglas Adams, mention is made of a trial on the planet Argabuthon. Now, a certain witness named Prak was being difficult, and they decided to inject him with truth serum before he testified. Due to outside interference (darned krikkiters), Prak was injected with too much. So, they asked him to “tell the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth.” And he did. Strange information, truths to drive men mad (or half-mad, if you make an excuse and leave early)… When the court realized that he was telling the absolute truth about _everything,_ and they couldn’t shut him up, they evacuated the courtroom, sealed it shut, and erected barriers of steel, barbed wire, and energy fields to keep everyone out…and Prak inside, where he was discovered by our heroes… > [@Douglas Adams](#): > > “Hi,” he said, with a little half-wave. His voice echoed through the chamber. He was a little man with scraggy hair. He sat with his shoulders hunched forward and his head and knees kept jiggling. He took a drag of his cigarette. > > They stared at him. > > “What’s going on?” said Trillian. > > “Nothing,” said the man and jiggled his shoulders. > > Arthur shone his torch full on Prak’s face. > > “We thought,” he said, “that you were meant to be telling the Truth, the Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth.” > > “Oh, that,” said Prak. “Yeah. I was. I finished. There’s not nearly as much of it as people imagine. Some of it’s pretty funny, though.” ---
**Author:** ![JoeSki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b487fb/32.png) [@JoeSki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeSki)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/69 "2005-03-29T06:19:43Z")
Lmao. Oh man, I love it when I forget something from a Douglas Adams book. It means it’s time to read it again 😃 . ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/70 "2005-03-29T09:08:00Z")
Another Star Trek one, I think it was called _Justice_ in season 1 TNG. Wesley accidentally trod on a flower bed in a society where any crime however minor is punishable by death. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/71 "2005-03-29T20:57:33Z")
I see someone finally mentioned _Galley Slave_, but there’s still at least one Asimov trial which still hasn’t been mentioned. “Legal Rites”, in which a ghost is claiming squatter’s rights on the house it haunts. Another short story, though I don’t remember the author (I think it was called “whosawhatsis”) took place in a courtroom and focused on the legal implications of sex-change operations. We’ve seen trials in a few episodes of _Babylon 5_, including one where a human wearing denim overalls and a straw hat sues an alien which looks like one of the standard “greys”, for the humiliation the human’s grandfather suffered when the alien’s grandfather abducted him. Another B5 trial culminated in a serial killer being sentenced to brain-wiping. In one of the Lensman books (I think it was _Gray Lensman_), Kinnison presides over a trial where he serves as high, middle, and low justice over a man accused of murder. His judgement is based mostly on his telepathic reading of the accused, and the sentence is carried out by telepathically forcing the accused to face the enormity of his actions, which self-confrontation ends up causing his brain to shut down. And in the Honor Harrington books, there are a number of trials of various sorts, courts-martial, show trials by autocratic regimes, etc., but aside from being set in a science fiction story, they didn’t really have many SF elements to them. Electronic evidence (surveillance footage, sensor records, etc.) plays a significant part, but then, we’re pretty close to that now. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/72 "2005-03-29T21:53:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We’ve seen trials in a few episodes of _Babylon 5_, including one where a human wearing denim overalls and a straw hat sues an alien which looks like one of the standard “greys”, for the humiliation the human’s grandfather suffered when the alien’s grandfather abducted him. Another B5 trial culminated in a serial killer being sentenced to brain-wiping. episode 15, Grail According to: > [@jms](#): > > The grey-alien trial scene from “Grail” will be excerpted for a two-part “Sightings” on alien abduction. > > I’m _still_ laughing. > > The human won the case, but damages awarded were minimal. Note: jms is a sick bastard, and he admits it. At the end of the episode, [spoiler]Thomas/Jinxo left on a ship named the Marie Celeste, named after a ship which had it’s entire crew mysteriously disappear. His response is: # Yeah, it was a bit of _really_ perverse humor…Jinxo survives all five Babylon stations, and leaves thinking all is well…on a ship named the Marie Celeste? We’re a sick bunch, but we’re fun. # "…what company in their right mind would name one of their ships the “Marie Celeste”? Dunno, but I’d bet good money that whoever it is, it’s an Australian company. Nothing frightens those people; they’re fearless. [/spoiler] all quotes taken from [The Lurker’s Guide to Babylon 5](http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2005, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/73 "2005-03-29T22:26:24Z")
> [@RobuSensei](#): > > I _can’t believe_ no one’s mentioned this one: > > In _Life, the Universe, and Everything,_ by Douglas Adams, mention is made of a trial on the planet Argabuthon. Now, a certain witness named Prak was being difficult, and they decided to inject him with truth serum before he testified. Due to outside interference (darned krikkiters), Prak was injected with too much. You forget to mention that the Krittiteers were put on trial for their attempt to kill every form of extra-Krikkitean life in the Galaxy. > [@Life](#): > > "OK,’’ said Judiciary Pag again, "so we won.’’ He paused and chewed a little gum. "We won,’’ he repeated, "but that’s no big deal. I mean a medium-sized galaxy against one little world, and how long did it take us? Clerk of the Court?’’ > > "M’lud?’’ said the severe little man in black, rising. > > "How long, kiddo?’’ > > "It is a trifle difficult, m’lud, to be precise in this matter. Time and distance …’’ > > "Relax, guy, be vague.’’ > > "I hardly like to be vague, m’lud, over such a …’’ > > "Bite the bullet and be it.’’ > > The Clerk of the Court blinked at him. It was clear that like most of the Galactic legal profession he found Judiciary Pag (or Zipo Bibrok 5×10^8, as his private name was known, inexplicably, to be) a rather distressing figure. He was clearly a bounder and a cad. He seemed to think that the fact that he was the possessor of the finest legal mind ever discovered gave him the right to behave exactly as he liked, and unfortunately he appeared to be right. > > "Er, well, m’lud, very approximately, two thousand years,’’ the Clerk murmured unhappily. > > "And how many guys zilched out?’’ > > "Two grillion, m’lud.’’ The Clerk sat down. A hydrospectic photo of him at this point would have revealed that he was steaming slightly. > > Judiciary Pag gazed once more around the courtroom, wherein were assembled hundreds of the very highest officials of the entire Galactic administration, all in their ceremonial uniforms or bodies, depending on metabolism and custom. Behind a wall of Zap-Proof Crystal stood a representative group of the people of Krikkit, looking with calm, polite loathing at all the aliens gathered to pass judgment on them. This was the most momentous occasion in legal history, and Judiciary Pag knew it. > > He took out his chewing gum and stuck it under his chair. > > "That’s a whole lotta stiffs,’’ he said quietly. Great scene. Freeeow! Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c67d28/32.png) [@Weird\_AL\_Einstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_AL_Einstein)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/74 "2005-03-30T07:26:20Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > And in “The Cage” (the original series pilot reworked as a double episode with flashbacks), Spock was on trial (for his life) for the crime of taking the Enterprise to Talos IV. Nitpick: The original series pilot _was_ “The Cage”. When they reworked it into the two-parter with Spock on trial, they called it “The Menagerie”. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/75 "2005-03-30T09:40:45Z")
John G. Hemry has 2 books out dealing with military law and courts martial in the near future. **A Just Determination** and **Burden of Proof** are quite good. Sort of JAG in space, with real military, not the stuff they show on TV. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/76 "2005-03-30T15:36:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If I had been Data’s lawyer in that case, I also would have argued the alternative theory that if he was property, he belonged to the estate of his maker, Noonian Soong, not Starfleet. I might even have sued Starfleet on the Soong Estate’s behalf, to compensate them for his use all those years. 😃 I thought about this too, on the other hand, Starfleet might have had a valid salvage claim on him in this scenario. The colony was devastated and it was not known at the time that Soong was dead, or that he had any living heirs. Starfleet was first to get to the scene of the disaster, and found Data just sitting there (or something like this.) Not quite sure what federation salvage laws are like, but there might have been a claim possible. On the other hand, allowing a ‘salvaged’ piece of property to sign up for the academy as if he’s a person, and then turning around and claiming he’s property seems more than a little two-faced. PS: (echoes of the Terry Schiavo case) How exactly do you get to act on the behalf of the Soong estate?? Just because you say you’re acting in their interest? > [@cmkeller](#): > > And in his Apprentice Adept series (last book, Juxtaposition…no, do NOT tell me there were books after that) Stile was place on trial on Photon for wanting to marry the robot Sheen, or something like that…don’t recall the precise charges. I don’t think there were any charges laid in that case. Wanting to marry Sheen was not an issue, but there was an inquiry called to decide the legalities of designating her as the heir to his estate. Still qualifies as a trial in the general sense, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/77 "2005-03-30T15:49:56Z")
> [@Peter Morris](#): > > Another Star Trek one, I think it was called _Justice_ in season 1 TNG. Wesley accidentally trod on a flower bed in a society where any crime however minor is punishable by death. Ghod, what a stinker THAT episode was! And at the end, Picard just ignores the Prime Directive and wisks Weley out of the jurisdiction. There is NO justification for this episode, aside from the skimpy outfits. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/78 "2005-03-30T16:20:02Z")
Ah, yes. The episode known as “The Planet of the Blond Joggers.” 🙂 There was also a ST:TNG episode where a woman pretended to be some mythical figure who supposedly now owned the planet. There was perhaps the dumbest courtroom scene in science fiction. The trial was on an alien world, run by alien, and they were using _American courtroom procedures_ :rolleyes: Getting back to Jim Morrow, his **This is the Way the World Ends** has an extended courtroom sequence where the protagonist is tried for being responsible for the end of the world. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/79 "2005-03-30T16:28:46Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > There was also a ST:TNG episode where a woman pretended to be some mythical figure who supposedly now owned the planet. There was perhaps the dumbest courtroom scene in science fiction. The trial was on an alien world, run by alien, and they were using _American courtroom procedures_ :rolleyes: What was there in that trial that was specifically American procedure?? It seemed relatively nicely alien to me. They made a point of having Data say that he had to run the trial by Andalosian law… (or whoever… and it was Data who was serving as the judge – the woman nominated him since he could be impartial…) and every so often he pointed out an Andalosian precedent that worked against Picard’s case. Of course, unless they started quoting specifically american precedents, just about anything can get explained away with ‘convergent legal evolution’ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2005, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465/80 "2005-03-30T16:33:51Z")
Oh, one thing I have to throw in about “the planet of the blond joggers” too. Beaming Wesley up into the ship to save him from execution - no, no way can they do that, even though he isn’t a native of the planet. But Jean-Luc can go down there and literally try to convince these people that their system of justice is fundamentally flawed?? 😃 It would seem to me that if you believe at all in the prime directive, that would be a hugely more serious violation of it than simply using superior technology to rescue the kid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-lesser-known-trials-in-science-fiction/296465.md?page=5)