# Great moments in pretension! **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 15, 2006, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479 "2006-11-15T02:37:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/101 "2006-11-17T00:39:32Z")
[QUOTE=Waverly] Guin, Kimera, sorry folks, you are wrong. I could provide a cite, here’s one: [http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=15770229&an=0&page=0](http://www.fightingarts.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=15770229&an=0&page=0) But that really shouldn’t be necessary. We are, after all in IMHO, and you can take or leave MHO without Guin, your “Um WHY”, and Kimera, your unsubstantiated assertion. I’d expect more from a model-gorgeous genius woman. Which of you two has been to traditional Chinese dinners, in China, and has been advised on the customs by member of Chinsese society. Show of hands? Rather than provide cite after cite, I’d rather admit that yes, many modern Chinese are sensitive to westerners and would not blink at the use of a fork and knife. However, the traditional belief is that knives and forks resemble weapons of warfare, and do not belong at a peaceful dinner table. The fork, after all, originates from China and there is a traditional reason they don’t use it. So, if really want to fit in (and why wouldn’t you?) forego the fork. Or continue being wrong. I don’t give a fuck. [/QUOTE] Speaking of pretentious… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/102 "2006-11-17T01:14:16Z")
I was working in an insurance claims office as a temp several years ago. A woman came in to report an accident she had had, and talked to my boss, who was the office manager. He referred to the lady as Ms Whatever. She was insensed. “I’ll have you know that I am a PhD.” she said in as haughty a tone as she could muster. “Hereafter you may refer to me as _Dr._ Whatever.” Without missing a beat, my boss removed a card from his wallet identifying himself as the mayor of a nearby city. “Hereafter,” he told her, “you may address me as ‘Your Honor!’” ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/103 "2006-11-17T01:16:22Z")
[QUOTE=Helen’s Eidolon] While ‘the hoi polloi’ is acceptable in English, it seems to be overwhelmingly used by people who a) want to sound smart by displaying their knowledge of classical Greek and b) end up sounding utterly dumb to a classicist. [/QUOTE] Then there’s the woman I know who thought it meant “the cat’s pajamas.” Nothing like the pretentious use of a term and getting the meaning dead wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Kayeby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@Kayeby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kayeby)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/104 "2006-11-17T01:49:59Z")
[QUOTE=kimera] What’s rude is when Chinese restaurants give forks to Asians dating whites because they assume that if you forsake your culture a bit, you must forsake it all. [/QUOTE] When my fiance and I go out to eat with my family they always give him a knife and fork, requiring us to swap because I’m hopeless with chopsticks. Nobody I know thinks it’s rude to use a knife and fork. My mum says it’s a little weird, a little clueless, but seemed surprised that anyone would take offense - to paraphrase her, Chinese people don’t go around being mystical and harmonious - it’s _cutlery_. If people make an honest attempt at using chopsticks but still have trouble it’s greatly preferable that they use a knife and fork rather than dropping food all over the place. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/105 "2006-11-17T02:52:05Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] The point is making a big deal about how well travelled you are and how you know so much more about foreign customs than “the hoi polloi.” That’s pretty damned pretentious, right there. [/QUOTE] Serenity now, Miller. Sometimes I guess I’m just plain pretentious, but in _that_ case it was for ironic effect. I’d say comic, but I guess you didn’t find it funny. I’m not quite as wound up as I seem, but those two posts / posters… eh never mind. I’m sorry for contributing to this hijack. I’ll go back to putting a napkin on my lap, even if no one is around, and letting red wine breath, even if it cost me $8, and all the other little pretentious niceties I’ve adopted because I’m: alone too often / insane / impressed with myself. ~W ---
**Author:** ![DataZak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@DataZak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataZak)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/106 "2006-11-17T03:36:03Z")
[QUOTE=jjimm] Could I just clarify that we’re talking here specifically about “Chinese” culture, not “Asian” in general. Many other Asian countries and cultures use various combinations of forks, spoons and knives. Asia’s a big continent. [/QUOTE] Damn straight it’s big. I’m a Malay from Malaysia so I know nothing about chopsticks. We eat with our right hands. Except for noodles. We use forks for those. ---
**Author:** ![MrJackboots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MrJackboots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrJackboots)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/107 "2006-11-17T04:52:02Z")
Golfclap to **Miller** for nailing it on the head. Am I the only one amused by the fact that this person is a returned _missionary_? **Waverly** ’s claim about cultural sensitivity strikes me as a little penny-wise and pound-foolish. Am I the only one who thinks that proselytizing is the height of cultural arrogance? C’mon, a two-hundred-year-old religion is telling two-thousand-year-old religions years old that it’s more spiritually valid? That’s OK, though; he uses chopsticks. :rolleyes: Anyhow, we’re not talking about presumption, only pretension, so here goes… [QUOTE=Waverly] Which of you two has been to traditional Chinese dinners, in China, and has been advised on the customs by member of Chinsese society. Show of hands? [/QUOTE] Yo. I’m Cantonese. Parts of my family are _very_ traditional. I’ll use my grandfather as my benchmark. This is a man who barely _owned_ forks (he kept a few for guests). In his house, they ate _jook_ and _yoatao_ pretty much every day for breakfast (forgive my Romanization), and served dinner in the traditional men-by-age, women-by-age order. My grandmother was shocked, when she came to the States, to discover that she could not buy live chickens at the supermarket. And so on. That said, we’re very traditionally _Cantonese_, so if we have any regional arguments going on, I’m at a loss. Sorry on that count. I asked him once about when you used forks and when you used chopsticks. His answer was that if you were eating out of a bowl, you used chopsticks. If you were eating off a plate, except for things like dumplings or buns or the like, you could use a fork. Why? Well, for one thing, it’s really impractical to eat off a plate with chopsticks. Rice and Chinese noodles don’t really behave very well on them, and those are your basic Chinese staple foods. It’s a matter of practicality. European food is usually served on a plate (and should be eaten with a fork), unless it’s soup, in which case you use a spoon. It’s a good way of separating the world. See, if you want to get really traditional (this may be a regional thing, and I’ll defer to any experts) we’re not really big on forks and knives, but we’re not really big on _plates_ either. Plates are good for serving things, not so good for eating from. If you want to babble on about harmony and symbolism, go ahead, but I’ll tell you there are precious few things more disruptive to a graceful, harmonious dinner table than chasing particulate food around a plate with a chopsticks, or making a guest uncomfortable because you don’t have eating utensils he can use. Now… for a sense of scale. Is it wrong to use a fork? Well… it’s certainly not _offensive_. As far as my grandfather was concerned, it’s one of those things that isn’t quite _correct_, but isn’t _wrong_ either, like… hmm. Being a slightly loud eater is about the same level of “rude”, or perhaps buttering your rolls all at once instead of tearing little parts off and buttering them from a bit of butter you put on your plate. It’s not really worth making a fuss, and certainly not worth insulting people. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/108 "2006-11-17T05:16:42Z")
Am I the only person wishing the slapfight would stop so we can get more stories like in post 102? Joe ---
**Author:** ![Batsinma\_Belfry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ea5d25/32.png) [@Batsinma\_Belfry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batsinma_Belfry)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/109 "2006-11-17T06:58:37Z")
[QUOTE=Largo62] I was working in an insurance claims office as a temp several years ago. A woman came in to report an accident she had had, and talked to my boss, who was the office manager. He referred to the lady as Ms Whatever. She was insensed. “I’ll have you know that I am a PhD.” she said in as haughty a tone as she could muster. “Hereafter you may refer to me as _Dr._ Whatever.” Without missing a beat, my boss removed a card from his wallet identifying himself as the mayor of a nearby city. “Hereafter,” he told her, “you may address me as ‘Your Honor!’” [/QUOTE] My son’s teacher prefers to be addressed as “Doctor” rather than “Mrs.” This is perfectly acceptable, except she teaches mentally challenged kids. To many of the kids, the concept of calling their teacher “doctor” is confusing. Soooo, guess what the lesson plan was for the first week of school? She absolutely grilled the kids on her proper title. Once, when I accidently called her “Mrs.” while talking to my son, he acted like a bolt of lightening would strike me down. It took me forever to calm him down. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Manatee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/50afbb/32.png) [@Manatee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manatee)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/110 "2006-11-17T07:28:51Z")
My kid’s kindergarten teacher also insists on being called “Doctor.” When we first met her, my wife asked “So, what’s your Ph.D. in?” not realizing that she most likely only (\<–Ph.D. pretensiousness showing) had an Ed.D. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/111 "2006-11-17T07:50:04Z")
[QUOTE=Waverly] A Chinese person would consider it rude to eat a Chinese meal with a fork (especially a _knife_ and fork). I figure why not show some culteral sensitivity even if it doesn’t appear anyone around might be offended and the food is Americanized? [/QUOTE] In Singapore, fork and spoons are pretty much the norm for some Chinese dishes. Most Chineses here stick to chopsticks because it’s easier for some type of food, like noodles. It really depends on how it is served. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/112 "2006-11-17T10:28:41Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] I can’t even touch this. You rule. 😃 [/QUOTE] When I’m good, I’m _good._ ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/113 "2006-11-17T11:42:49Z")
Nice example from the UK’s favourite wannabe gangsta… [Tim “Big Dawg” Westwood](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Westwood). In a recent interview he was asked if he preferred North London or South London. His reply was that he’s “_… just London, baby. I wear this city like a cloak on my back_”. As one rather arch Guardian columnist noted, “_Mr Westwood is a bishop’s son from Lowestoft_\*” (For non-Uk dopers, Lowestoft is a small seaside town about 120 miles from London… it’s the epitome of provincial small-town England, a looooong way from the mean streets of Brixton) ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/114 "2006-11-17T15:13:03Z")
[QUOTE=sjc] I’m sure the instructor was quite pretentious, but I also feel that there is a grain of truth to what he says. As I believe someone else pointed out (regarding Marx, I think), _someone_ translated the work and a very well could have intended the ‘morning/mourning’ thing. Even if the translator didn’t intend it and it was in fact entirely unintentional, it seems to me that you can still talk about it as something you see in the work. I’m sure he was being pretentious though. [/QUOTE] And if he answered like you did - I wouldn’t remember this as an example of pretension. [QUOTE=jimm] Well damn you man, you beat me to the punch; But be a sport: give credit to the pig. [/QUOTE] Actually, Fawlty Towers used the “Pretentious? Moi?” line while Miss Piggy was still a bolt of pink felt in a warehouse somewhere. It was the episode with the 70’s swinger-type who was trying to sneak a girl into his room. And I’m sure it’s older than that. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/115 "2006-11-17T15:37:11Z")
Regarding the whole chopsticks thing - FWIW, I’m Korean and I am not at all offended when people eat Korean food with chopsticks. Hell, in Korea, restaurants will most likely give you a fork if you look obviously foreign. I remember reading a book review in Time Out about some guide to Asian eating, and the tips they had for Korean dining were ridiculous. “Don’t ask for side-dish refills,” it said, going on to explain what a huge social faux pas this was. In Korea, side-dish refills are a GIVEN. You usually shouldn’t even had to ask for one. The author was talking out of their ass. Another story: back in undergrad, we had an instructor who took great umbrage when students called her “teacher.” In Korea, you call your teachers “teacher,” which includes your professors as well, although if you have a lot of respect for said professor you might call them “professor” instead. “I prefer to be called professor,” said she. :rolleyes: What, being a teacher is beneath you? ---
**Author:** ![Caricci](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85f322/32.png) [@Caricci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caricci)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/116 "2006-11-17T16:32:32Z")
My younger brother can be a pretentious gas-bag. I recall him announcing to my husband and me that “the world disdains my music”. Not the music he plays, you understand, but the music he listens to. And, no, he wasn’t about 16 at the time of this statement, but more like 28. Also, speaking of chopsticks, he asked for some at the Chinese buffet once and they couldn’t find any, causing him to whine “How am I supposed to eat then?” Oh, I don’t know, with that fork next to your plate? I mean, for heaven’s sake, he _can’t_ eat in the Chinese buffet because they don’t offer chopsticks? The Chinese staff don’t give a rat’s ass about the chopsticks, why should you? And it’s not like he was eating tons of rice and noodles and just a little meat and vegetables; he was eating the same congealed glop everyone else was eating. The “best girl” at his wedding recalled, in her toast, that he once told her he was the smartest person he knows. Why, yes, he did drive a fork lift at BJ’s until just two years ago, when he was 37, but he’s wicked smart. I know that he’s much smarter than his former co-workers because he told me that it distresses him to have nothing to talk about with them. Never mind that he had a “best girl” at his wedding to show how cutting edge he is. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/117 "2006-11-17T17:07:08Z")
[QUOTE=HazelNutCoffee] Another story: back in undergrad, we had an instructor who took great umbrage when students called her “teacher.” In Korea, you call your teachers “teacher,” which includes your professors as well, although if you have a lot of respect for said professor you might call them “professor” instead. “I prefer to be called professor,” said she. :rolleyes: What, being a teacher is beneath you? [/QUOTE] That’s not uncommon in academia, which is often strictly divided into instructors (who have no Ph.D) and Professors (who have). There status, of course, plus an instructor is usually not hired for more than a year or two. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/118 "2006-11-17T17:14:58Z")
[QUOTE=Caricci] My younger brother can be a pretentious gas-bag. I recall him announcing to my husband and me that “the world disdains my music”. Not the music he plays, you understand, but the music he listens to. And, no, he wasn’t about 16 at the time of this statement, but more like 28. Also, speaking of chopsticks [/QUOTE] So you’re saying he liked Chopsticks? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Myron\_Van\_Horowitzski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Myron_Van_Horowitzski)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/119 "2006-11-17T19:20:23Z")
My niece once had a conversation with a woman who was bragging about her job. The woman went on and on about how important she was at her company because she trained people to use a particular software application. My niece, who had been one of the developers of this software, just smiled and nodded. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2006, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479/120 "2006-11-17T20:25:55Z")
[QUOTE=Jackmannii] James Ellroy (in a promo for a TV special) announcing that he is the greatest crime writer ever. [/QUOTE] You mean Lee Earle Ellroy? Anybody with a pimp name like that has to be pretentious just to lift himself out of the muck. Besides, there’s no question he’s one seriously screwed up guy. Just check out _[My Dark Places](http://www.amazon.com/My-Dark-Places-James-Ellroy/dp/0679762051/)_. “Greatest crime writer ever”? Not even in the Top 10. Stranger [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-moments-in-pretension/380479.md?page=7)