# Great Movies that Betrayed Their Source Material **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 18, 2018, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821 "2018-08-18T05:08:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/41 "2018-08-20T14:59:38Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Still, making him black or gay or American (which has, I know, actually been done) is a betrayal of the source material. I’d agree regarding gay and American, because if there are 3 things the average person on the street knows about Bond, it’s that he’s a spy, he’s British, and he loves the ladies. I can only assume those three are constants in the books as well. But this is a legitimate question, from someone who hasn’t read any of the books: Is it actually stated or even implied in the books that Bond is white? Or is that just assumed by readers who are white? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/42 "2018-08-20T15:26:27Z")
I’ve only read “Casino Royale”, and there’s not any explicit mention of Bond being white, but he is described as being reminiscent of Hoagy Carmichael, who is white. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/43 "2018-08-20T15:29:43Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’ve only read “Casino Royale”, and there’s not any explicit mention of Bond being white, but he is described as being reminiscent of Hoagy Carmichael, who is white. And yet no actor ever cast as Bond has looked anything like Hoagy Carmichael. Is that also a betrayal of the source material? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/44 "2018-08-20T15:58:53Z")
I’ve heard that the author of Mary Poppins felt the Disney Movie was a betrayal of the source material. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/45 "2018-08-20T16:17:04Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > _The Hunt for Red October_ movie took a pivotal strategic plot point and turned it into something completely lame. I do not know why unless they felt they needed to dumb down the plot for the audience. I had read the book first and was completely off balance when this happened until I realized that they had corrupted the plot for the film. What plot point did they change? There are strategic holes that I’ve noticed in the movie. I’ve read the book once but it was ages ago. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/46 "2018-08-20T16:40:44Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > But this is a legitimate question, from someone who hasn’t read any of the books: Is it actually stated or even implied in the books that Bond is white? Or is that just assumed by readers who are white? I’m not sure it was explicitly stated, but it would have been the kind of thing that “went without saying.” In the 1950s and 1960s, if Bond had been black (or anything other than white) it would have been unequivocally remarked on given the social circles he was moving in. I’m sure that there were instances of Bond posing as a Russian or German or other European to infiltrate some villain’s hideout. And of course, several stories take place in part in Florida where he would have encountered segregated facilities at the time if he were black. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/47 "2018-08-20T16:49:16Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I’ve heard that the author of Mary Poppins felt the Disney Movie was a betrayal of the source material. True that. Despite a [Disney](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2140373/reference) movie showing the conflict – and downplaying it considerably – although Unca Walt desperately wanted to make a sequal, she did not allow it. ---
**Author:** ![Noelq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noelq/32/16438_2.png) [@Noelq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noelq)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/48 "2018-08-20T17:21:31Z")
The movie version of “Ready Player One” can consume fecal matter and expire. Its a horrible abomination of an amazing book. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/49 "2018-08-20T17:22:31Z")
Jaws the book was about a shark and a love triangle between Brody, his wife and Hooper. Which is why Hooper had to die. I like that the movie got rid of this distraction. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/50 "2018-08-20T17:30:30Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > Some really great movies have been betrayals of their source material and were actually better for it. _A Clockcwork Orange_ and _The Shining_ reportedly didn’t please the respective authors, I’m told. _The Shining_ was definitely not “better for it” though. The book is the best thing Stephen King has ever written to date. A decent movie was made that was loosely based on it but didn’t tell the same story, didn’t develop the characters as written, and lost a lot of what made the book so great. Kubrick’s movie had some great moments but was a substantially flawed piece of work (to watch Jack Torrance / Nicholson gradually go insane is a lot like watching Jim Carrey gradually become annoying; Shelley Duval as Wenday was busy doing a Fay Wray reprise instead of being a strong if damaged character; Scatman Crothers as Dick Hallorann spent frantic minutes getting back to the hotel only to get killed off on arrival, not an improvement in the plot flow; the final denoument of the Jack character forgetting the furnace boiler and the hotel subsequently blowing up is replaced with people running in aimless circles and a fade to a photograph. And Danny, instead of being the hero, is scarcely even the primary vantage point. Shoulda stuck with the source material. And done better casting. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/51 "2018-08-20T17:41:42Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > One thing I’m “on the fence” about is when a movie “works” and is considered a good movie but to me doesn’t seem faithful to the intent of the text. To me, the Lord of the Rings movies fit that description. People obviously liked the movies enough to continue watching, but to me anyway they just didn’t tell the story. ( **A** story, sure, but not Tolkien’s story.) Oh gosh no, the LotR films stay about as true to the Source as you could expect in a film. Now, the Hobbit films, otoh…☹ ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/52 "2018-08-20T17:46:06Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > In the movie, the question is “Can androids have humanity?” (which is why the question of whether Deckard is an android is a valid one for the movie). No, it’s not. The fact that it’s even a question shows that the director didn’t understand the work. Look, the androids are in many ways _more_ human than Deckard. That’s the whole point. Making Deckard into a android misses that entire point, changes it into “Can a android be more human than another android?” which is\*\* fucking stupid. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/53 "2018-08-20T18:04:20Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I’m sure that there were instances of Bond posing as a Russian or German or other European to infiltrate some villain’s hideout. And in _You Only Live Twice_ he disguised himself as a Japanese coal miner. Rather more difficult for a black person than a white. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/54 "2018-08-20T18:05:55Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > I’d agree regarding gay and American, because if there are 3 things the average person on the street knows about Bond, it’s that he’s a spy, he’s British, and he loves the ladies. I can only assume those three are constants in the books as well. > > But this is a legitimate question, from someone who hasn’t read any of the books: Is it actually stated or even implied in the books that Bond is white? Or is that just assumed by readers who are white? It’s mentioned in the books that Bond has a comma of black hair that be brushes away from his forehead, so at least he doesn’t have an afro. I don’t think ethnicity is ever mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/55 "2018-08-20T18:08:52Z")
Of course they could go with the Casino Royale idea that “James Bond 007” is just a code name, assigned to their best assassin/spy. or their 7th best? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/56 "2018-08-20T18:13:09Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > It’s mentioned in the books that Bond has a comma of black hair that be brushes away from his forehead, so at least he doesn’t have an afro. He also has blue-gray eyes. > [@](#): > > I don’t think ethnicity is ever mentioned. Checking, in _You Only Live Twice_ it’s mentioned that his father was Scottish, from Glencoe, and his mother was French Swiss. So yes, he explicitly was white. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/57 "2018-08-20T19:24:13Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > What plot point did they change? There are strategic holes that I’ve noticed in the movie. I’ve read the book once but it was ages ago. Ages ago for me too. I think it had to do with how the deception of appearing to destroy the October sub was handled. I’ll have to go back and check. ---
**Author:** ![Unpronounceable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9de0a6/32.png) [@Unpronounceable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unpronounceable)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/58 "2018-08-20T19:39:52Z")
> [@Horatio\_Hellpop](#): > > I think so. Consider [Sin City](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0401792/fullcredits), based on a comics series written and drawn by Frank Miller, who wrote and co-directed the film. After about a decade of making well-regarded superhero comics, Miller shifted gears and made a crime comic that was grounded in his view of how the world really is, with no fantasy elements. The film was over-the-top cartoony and made no pretense at realism. Bringing up graphic novels makes me think of WANTED…did the movie have _anything_ to do with its source material? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/59 "2018-08-20T20:24:57Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Ages ago for me too. I think it had to do with how the deception of appearing to destroy the October sub was handled. I’ll have to go back and check. IIRC, in the novel, RO made it safe and sound to the U.S.A., and a maskirova was enacted by Ryan/CIA to say that she was destroyed, going so far as to blow up a decommissioned U.S. sub, and to remove some of RO’s readily identifiable bits and pieces and place them in the debris field for “verification” that it was the RO that was actually destroyed. Meanwhile, the RO laid up in an obscure river channel for a few weeks/months to let the furor die down, before moving discreetly down to a secure Navy/CIA dockyard for analysis. It was during that movement that Tupolev caught up with the RO and the “duel” ensued. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Bill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mr.Bill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Bill)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821/60 "2018-08-20T21:49:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Oh gosh no, the LotR films stay about as true to the Source as you could expect in a film. > > Now, the Hobbit films, otoh…☹ Nah, they made some big changes. For example, The Ents going to war against Saruman. In the books, at this point Merry and Pippin were pretty much just baggage, with no sense of what needed to be done. They both matured and took responsibility later, but while with the Ents, they were just along for the ride. In the movie, however, it was Merry (I think???) who maneuvered the Ents into going to war against their inclination to stay neutral. That was totally beyond what he was capable of at that point in time. They also, for some inexplicable reason made the Uruk-Hai hydroponically grown in mud, emerging fully grown and ready to throw on some armor, pick up a weapon and go into battle. There’s no basis for that in the books. And it’s really not necessary, or believable, even in the LOTR world. Don’t get me wrong, I liked the movies greatly and understand how much of those massive books needed to be cut in order to make the movies a reasonable length. I just have a few quibbles about things that should have been left in and the two items above which DIDN’T NEED TO BE CHANGED!!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-movies-that-betrayed-their-source-material/819821.md?page=4)