# Great songs with not so great lyrics **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [January 30, 2025, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630 "2025-01-30T17:36:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/101 "2025-02-04T18:27:26Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > > [@dirtball](#): > > > > Just like witches at black masses > > > > I guess rhyming “masses” with “masses” is just about the most perfect rhyme you could ever hope for. > > I unironically really enjoy that identity rhyme/self rhyme. I think it’s a great example of how to use it. To be fair, I’ll agree that Ozzy (or whoever wrote the lyrics) deserves points for using the word in two different senses. That deserves consideration. But still, my reaction when hearing it is, “What, he couldn’t think of a different word?” ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/102 "2025-02-04T18:30:29Z")
I really like the Beatles’ song “Blackbird” and I think it sounds beautiful but I’ve since decided that it’s vapid and doesn’t mean shit. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/103 "2025-02-04T18:37:57Z")
AFAIK in “Blackbird” McCartney was celebrating the emancipation of black women during the civil rights changes. So I wouldn’t say it meant shit, though it’s debatable if he did so in a vapid way. I think it’s a beautiful song. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/104 "2025-02-04T18:42:34Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I always took it that way too. It’s a song about an (unhealthy) obsession. If I were Yoko, I would have been creeped out by the song. She had him right where she wanted him. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/105 "2025-02-04T20:04:11Z")
> [@dirtball](#): > > He has a meeting with a successful country artist and shows him his “Take the Money and Run” lyrics. The country singer is going to say, “Well, Steve, I don’t know why you’re showing me your first draft. Whoa, hold the phone, Chuck… are you suggesting that country lyrics are deeper/better than rock songs? I’m not sure I’d agree with you on that. And I say that as a long-time die hard classic country fan. > [@dirtball](#): > > > [@pulykamell](#): > > > > > [@dirtball](#): > > > > > > Just like witches at black masses > > > > > > I guess rhyming “masses” with “masses” is just about the most perfect rhyme you could ever hope for. > > > > I unironically really enjoy that identity rhyme/self rhyme. I think it’s a great example of how to use it. > > To be fair, I’ll agree that Ozzy (or whoever wrote the lyrics) deserves points for using the word in two different senses. That deserves consideration. But still, my reaction when hearing it is, “What, he couldn’t think of a different word?” I’d never thought about it until this thread. I strongly dislike rhyming verses that use the same word, in general, and I guess this example never peaked my notice because of the two meanings. Even that might not deserve a pass if the simile wasn’t so great. > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > AFAIK in “Blackbird” McCartney was celebrating the emancipation of black women during the civil rights changes. I could be wrong about this, my memory being what it is, but I don’t think Sir Paul offered that explanation until after the year 2000 - the song was written in '68. I’m almost positive I heard him offer a different meaning earlier on. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/106 "2025-02-04T20:35:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You could argue it, but you’d be wrong. That sense is [way older](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/abandoned) than the deserted sense. Fair enough, but I think it’s a safe bet that in the same song as “ain’t the fire inside? Let’s all go stand around it”, “abandoned” was probably chosen as a convenient rhyme, not for any profound poetic meaning. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/107 "2025-02-04T20:37:04Z")
> [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Whoa, hold the phone, Chuck… are you suggesting that country lyrics are deeper/better than rock songs? I’m not sure I’d agree with you on that. And I say that as a long-time die hard classic country fan. Considering all of rock music as one body of work and all of country music the same way, no, I wouldn’t say that. What I would say is that in my entirely subjective experience, rock seems to have more music at both the upper and lower ends of the quality spectrum. So if you’re a lazy-ass songwriter who just wants to spend five minutes scribbling down some words that you’ll call a song, you’re more likely to get away with it if you present yourself as a rocker. (And I do think “Take the Money and Run” is a fun little number, instrumentally.) And that’s not to say I think all country music is polished gems of songwriting craftsmanship with lyrics that’ll comply with the standard rules someone would learn in a creative writing workshop. It’s most certainly not. But (and again, based simply on my own nonscientific experience with hearing music over the years) if that’s what you’re looking for as a listener, country is probably safer territory. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/108 "2025-02-04T20:59:11Z")
Dude, you fancy like Applebees! ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/109 "2025-02-04T23:14:18Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Dude, you fancy like Applebees! Fuckin’ brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/110 "2025-02-04T23:22:18Z")
??? Edit, after googling “fancy like applebees”: Oh, my. That’s…unfortunate. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/111 "2025-02-04T23:39:22Z")
Yes, and far be it from me to judge… but those dance moves are not becoming to a 41 year old man. [Link](https://www.tiktok.com/@walkerhayesofficial/video/6973392083554012422?embed_source=121374463%2C121468991%2C121439635%2C121433650%2C121404359%2C121497414%2C73319236%2C121477481%2C121351166%2C121487028%2C73347566%2C121331973%2C120811592%2C120810756%2C121501435%3Bnull%3Bembed_share&refer=embed&referer_url=www.latimes.com%2Fentertainment-arts%2Fmusic%2Fstory%2F2021-09-10%2Fwalker-hayes-fancy-like-applebees-commercial&referer_video_id=6973392083554012422) ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/112 "2025-02-04T23:44:58Z")
Some time later, Van Halen released an album called “For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.” Since you mentioned the April Wine song, here’s the video. MTV actually played it, as did my local AOR station. > **[April Wine - If You See Kay (RESTORED VIDEO)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL6xtUnFPN8%2F)** > > Third single from their 1982 album "Power Play".Existing video copies aren't the best quality or have severe interlacing issues. Reformatted the video, resto... ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/113 "2025-02-04T23:48:18Z")
Ha…I’m not sure how you missed that country gem. It was everywhere for awhile. I like a lot of country, but not contemporary stuff unless it comes from Stapleton, Isbell, Simpson, etc. Too much of modern country comes with a side of bumper nuts and Nickelback/KidRock adjacency. I can’t escape it around these parts. > [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Fuckin’ brilliant. I’ll be here all week. Tip your waiter. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/114 "2025-02-04T23:50:29Z")
I like _Walk Like an Egyptian_, but the lyrics are odd. Brian ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/115 "2025-02-04T23:51:43Z")
Leonard Cohen’s “Hallelujah” is a beautiful song… if you don’t mind lyrics about a love affair ruining two people’s lives but it’s OK because we had some great orgasms. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/116 "2025-02-04T23:55:15Z")
Most likely, the “old maids” reference in “Surrender” is a sideways way to say “lesbians”, and Mommy isn’t one of those; he’s known her all these years. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2025, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/117 "2025-02-04T23:57:58Z")
The British alt/New Wave band Cocteau Twins didn’t have anyone who was any good at writing lyrics, so they just strung together random words and used them as lyrics. Stereolab, whose singer Laetitia Sadier mostly speaks French, has done the same thing, in both French and English. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/118 "2025-02-05T00:07:13Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Ha…I’m not sure how you missed that country gem. It was everywhere for awhile. I like a lot of country, but not contemporary stuff unless it comes from Stapleton, Isbell, Simpson, etc. Too much of modern country comes with a side of bumper nuts and Nickelback/KidRock adjacency. I can’t escape it around these parts. I don’t hear very much currently popular music of any genre these days. Just a little bit here and there. It’s not avoidance; it’s just that my normal day-to-day doesn’t expose me to it. I do spend no small amount of time poking around on Bandcamp and the Live Music Archive at [Archive.org](http://Archive.org), though. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > The British alt/New Wave band Cocteau Twins didn’t have anyone who was any good at writing lyrics, so they just strung together random words and used them as lyrics. Stereolab, whose singer Laetitia Sadier mostly speaks French, has done the same thing, in both French and English. I totally get the idea of vocals as, primarily, another instrument in the arrangement. I may be misremembering, but I think I read an interview where Jon Anderson said that’s what he was doing in some Yes songs. If someone is taking that approach, I’m not sure I’d hold them to the same standard I would use to form an opinion about something like “The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.” Judge them on the basis of how well you think they did what they set out to do. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/119 "2025-02-05T00:10:45Z")
When I saw this, I thought, “The guy from Foreigner, and before that King Crimson, critiqued a Beatles song?” No, he didn’t, but a bit of sleuthing revealed that a music critic whose really name was Ian MacCallum did. > **[Ian MacDonald](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_MacDonald)** > > Ian MacCormick (known by the pseudonym Ian MacDonald; 3 October 1948 – 20 August 2003) was an English music critic, journalist and author, best known for both Revolution in the Head, his critical history of the Beatles which borrowed techniques from art historians, and The New Shostakovich, a study of Russian composer Dmitri Shostakovich. > Ian MacDonald was born in London on 3 October 1948. He studied at Dulwich College before briefly attending King's College, Cambridge, at first to study Engl... ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2025, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630/120 "2025-02-05T01:30:03Z")
I’m actually a big fan of music that has surreal, fragmented, or stream-of-conscious lyrics. One of my favorite Wire songs is “Kidney Bingos” and has lyrics like: > [@](#): > > Natural splits sunburn jets pride marks smart bets > Strikers luck pitch backs heap tips pit slacks > Dressed pints demon shrinks bread drunk dead drinks > Stretch clubs models box draw skin black shocks Love the way all those sounds meld together. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-songs-with-not-so-great-lyrics/1013630.md?page=7)