# Great stuff \[regarding the Washington Post and the Mueller investigation\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 29, 2018, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280 "2018-11-29T17:20:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/81 "2018-11-30T20:57:10Z")
[President Trump likely reinvigorated Republican lawmakers when he said is considering declassifying “devastating” Justice Department and FBI documents if House Democrats “want to play tough.”](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-threatens-to-declassify-devastating-documents-if-democrats-want-to-play-tough) I also heard it another way - If democrats investigate my administration. um. Isn’t that extortion? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/82 "2018-11-30T21:21:06Z")
> [@Chip\_Dundas](#): > > Mueller and his team of Clinton donors are most likely going to release a report that is damaging to Trump politically, not criminally as it pertains to Russia collusion. Right. And once the political damage is done, and he’s impeached, then we can get to the criminal damage. > [@](#): > > There is just nothing there. So why is there going to be political damage? > [@](#): > > Now money laundering or other financial process crime? That is a different story which has been the goal of this sham Russia cover story the whole time. Are you conceding that Trump launders money and engages in other financial crimes? If he was laundering Russian money, wouldn’t that directly tie into his collusion with Russia during the election? It seems it would be harder to disentangle his financial relationships with his other relationships then to try to draw lines around his different machinations. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/83 "2018-11-30T21:28:28Z")
[ > [@enipla](#): > > President Trump likely reinvigorated Republican lawmakers when he said is considering declassifying “devastating” Justice Department and FBI documents if House Democrats “want to play tough.”]([https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-threatens-to-declassify-devastating-documents-if-democrats-want-to-play-tough](https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-threatens-to-declassify-devastating-documents-if-democrats-want-to-play-tough)) I also heard it another way - If democrats investigate my administration. > > um. Isn’t that extortion? It’s further aggravated by flat out admitting that he’d do it for political reasons, even going so far as planning to withhold any such releases until the most politically opportune times: > [@From your link](#): > > “I think that would help my campaign. If they want to play tough, I will do it. They will see how devastating those pages are,” Trump [told](https://nypost.com/2018/11/28/trump-threatens-to-declassify-devastating-docs-about-democrats/) the New York Post on Wednesday. > > ``` > The request was made in September and heavily focused on documents relating to the surveillance warrant used against former Trump adviser Carter Page. > Also requested were documents detailing meetings former Justice Department official Bruce Ohr had with Christopher Steele, a former British intelligence agent who was paid by Democrats to write a salacious dossier about Trump, which had information the FBI relied on in its surveillance application on Page. > But, Trump later said he may save the release for a more politically ideal time. > “It’s much more powerful if I do it then,” Trump said, adding, “because if we had done it already, it would already be yesterday’s news.” > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Chip\_Dundas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5a626/32.png) [@Chip\_Dundas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chip_Dundas)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/84 "2018-12-01T07:04:23Z")
The fact that Obama spied on political opponents using United States government Intelligence assets. This is what Mueller is covering up and this is why declassification is so important. Trump is using it as leverage and Mueller is pushing back on this with the stupidity we saw yesterday. Not sure how this ends. Regardless, Trump should declassify but he is more concerned about himself than doing the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/85 "2018-12-01T07:14:19Z")
> [@Chip\_Dundas](#): > > The fact that Obama spied on political opponents using United States government Intelligence assets. > > This is what Mueller is covering up and this is why declassification is so important. Trump is using it as leverage and Mueller is pushing back on this with the stupidity we saw yesterday. > > Not sure how this ends. Regardless, Trump should declassify but he is more concerned about himself than doing the right thing. You really should stop paying attention to Tucker Carlson and right-wing tabloids. ---
**Author:** ![tripthicket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripthicket/32/297_2.png) [@tripthicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tripthicket)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/86 "2018-12-01T08:38:41Z")
Thought I was just playing Ignore List Bingo, but apparently I’ve moved on to, what, Blackout Bingo? The one where you fill the whole card? Yeah, that one. I got two more out of this thread before I stopped reading. Go me! ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/87 "2018-12-01T11:16:19Z")
> [@Chip\_Dundas](#): > > Regardless, Trump should declassify but he is more concerned about himself than doing the right thing. Wow. Even an old broke-down VCR that no longer does anything but sit there forlornly flashing “12:00” is still right sometimes. Not only is Trump “more concerned about himself than doing the right thing”, but _ **IF** _ President Obama was really using U.S. government intelligence assets to spy on his political opponents, then that should certainly be declassified. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/88 "2018-12-01T11:36:08Z")
> [@Chip\_Dundas](#): > > The fact that Obama spied on political opponents using United States government Intelligence assets. > > This is what Mueller is covering up and this is why declassification is so important. Trump is using it as leverage and Mueller is pushing back on this with the stupidity we saw yesterday. > > Not sure how this ends. Regardless, Trump should declassify but he is more concerned about himself than doing the right thing. What proof do you have of your assertions, and how did you get that proof? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/89 "2018-12-01T11:43:30Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > What proof do you have of your assertions, and how did you get that proof? Here’s a [pretty good summary](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gut_flora) of his sourcing. ---
**Author:** ![UnwittingAmericans](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d9b06d/32.png) [@UnwittingAmericans](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UnwittingAmericans)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/90 "2018-12-01T11:55:08Z")
> [@Chip\_Dundas](#): > > Guiliani played Mueller like a fool because Rudy has just as much, if not more clout, in the DOJ/FBI as Mueller does. LOL. Merry Christmas. NO COLLUSION! ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/91 "2018-12-01T12:21:12Z")
> [@Chip\_Dundas](#): > > Mueller and his team of Clinton donors are most likely going to release a report that is damaging to Trump politically, not criminally as it pertains to Russia collusion. There is just nothing there. Now money laundering or other financial process crime? That is a different story which has been the goal of this sham Russia cover story the whole time. Protip: In the future, avoid nominating and subsequently electing criminal scumbags. Your white trash Jesus is going down. It’s not the democraps or the ‘deep state’ taking him down. It’s his own decades of corruption, plain and simple. It’s time to start pretending you were actually for Pence all along. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/92 "2018-12-01T12:28:23Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > I stopped reading the OP right here. The guy isn’t wrong, though. Guiliani does everything like a fool. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/93 "2018-12-01T13:22:55Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I see this a lot. A bunch of comprehending posters react negatively toward a right-winger. They clearly understand what he is saying and react as you would expect. All good. Will, there’s this common convention in the english language where if someone says something that is clearly audible, but happens to be insultingly insane, we respond with some version of, “Beg your pardon?” or “Can you explain?” It’s polite, because the alternative to “I heard that wrong” and “I’m missing some context that you need to explain” is “You’re completely fucking insane, holy shit”. All things considered, I think anyone handing out that courtesy to **Chip Dundas** is foolish - we _know_ **Chip Dundas** is completely insane. We _know_ his ranting is the product of severe cognitive mismanagement and a certain parasitic brain worm. We don’t have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Come to think of it, we don’t really need to give that to you, either. > [@](#): > > Then a few of the really dumb ones come by and say that the person is incoherent. They usually have the angriest responses as well. If you don’t understand what someone is saying and everyone else does understand, you should be humbled by your stupidity. Technically, this isn’t quite as dumb as the OP. But man, it comes within spitting distance. The bar is six feet under and you still almost couldn’t get over it. That’s quite a feat. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/94 "2018-12-01T13:25:00Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Will, there’s this common convention in the english language where if someone says something that is clearly audible, but happens to be insultingly insane, we respond with some version of, “Beg your pardon?” or “Can you explain?” It’s polite, because the alternative to “I heard that wrong” and “I’m missing some context that you need to explain” is “You’re completely fucking insane, holy shit”. All things considered, I think anyone handing out that courtesy to **Chip Dundas** is foolish - we _know_ **Chip Dundas** is completely insane. Yes, which means the proper response is “Bless your heart!” ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/95 "2018-12-01T16:01:52Z")
> [@Chip\_Dundas](#): > > The fact that Obama spied on political opponents using United States government Intelligence assets. > > This is what Mueller is covering up and this is why declassification is so important. Trump is using it as leverage and Mueller is pushing back on this with the stupidity we saw yesterday. > > Not sure how this ends. Regardless, Trump should declassify but he is more concerned about himself than doing the right thing. Preach on, my QAnon brother! _secret handshake with wiggly finger_ ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/96 "2018-12-01T16:20:25Z")
Watch out, Chip - it’s a trap! He _wiggled the wrong finger!_ ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/97 "2018-12-01T16:22:54Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yes, which means the proper response is “Bless your heart!” Or “You’re banned because as much sympathy as we have, the voices of the severely and deeply deranged do little to nothing to contribute to the climate of conversation here”. That would work too. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/98 "2018-12-01T16:37:30Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Anyone care to translate the OP? I’ll give it a go. > [@Chip\_Dundas](#): > > One thing I have learned the past 2 years with the russiagate nonsense is how the washington post and some other outlets are not legitimate independent news services but are essentially arms of federal bureaucrats institutions. Guiliani played Mueller like a fool because Rudy has just as much, if not more clout, in the DOJ/FBI as Mueller does. Guiliani basically did to these bueraucratic jerks in the special counsel office what they/fbi/doj/cia did to trump during 2016/2017. They sent an informant in and extracted information. This is now called LEVERAGE and the silent coup folks knows this. So they push this nonsense in the washington post. Trump has these jerkd by the balls and everyone knows it. At the same time, Cocaine Mitch just killed the mueller protection legislation which is stupid and unconstitutional. What a comedy all around. 1. I dismiss the whole Mueller investigation as nonsense and a witch hunt. 2. The Washington Post and some other news outlets are not legitimate independent news services, but are tools being used by federal bureaucrats to manipulate the American public’s views about the President. (Presumably because the bureaucrats disagree with his agenda?) 3. Rudy Giuliani is a genius that has more clout in the DOJ and FBI than Mueller does. (Presumably because he is a former DOJ prosecutor and former mayor of New York City? Whereas Mueller is only the former head of the FBI.) 4. Turn about is fair play. Giuliani used Manafort as an informant, just like the FBI did with Papadopoulos. 5. The information gained by Manafort is “LEVERAGE”. This will be useful in some way against the bureaucrats who are working within to foil Trump, aka silent coup folks. (I don’t understand this. What I think is the information gained allowed Trump and his team to craft their responses confident that they would agree with Manafort’s answers as well as with what information he could glean about what Mueller knows.) 6. “So they push this nonsense in the washington post.” (I’m not sure what this means.) 7. Trump has executed a master chess move and undercut Mueller. He is winning. 8. I don’t like Mitch McConnell (“cocaine Mitch”?). 9. Mitch McConnell did the President a solid by stopping the legislation Congress was pushing to protect the Mueller investigation. 10. That legislation is unconstitutional and stupid, so it’s good it was stopped. 11. I laugh at the Democrats, the silent bureaucrats, Mueller, the Washington Post, and everything about this situation in general, because Trump is going to win. Parsing what he said isn’t the problem. Knowing where he got the info he used to form his opinions, and the validity of the facts they refer to is the trouble. For 2 above, someone is leaking information to the Washington Post with the intent to damage Trump. The Washington Post is reporting the information it receives, because that’s what legitimate news agencies do. For 4 above, I’m not sure what Manafort did is entirely legal. He appears to be betting on a Pardon, because he certainly dug a bigger hole with the Justice Department and any sentencing he faces. Whether there is any recourse against Giuliani and the other lawyers is also a question. It might have been legal, but was it ethical? Is it something for the Bar association to review? ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/99 "2018-12-01T16:37:56Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > > > Yes, which means the proper response is “Bless your heart!” > > Or “You’re banned because as much sympathy as we have, the voices of the severely and deeply deranged do little to nothing to contribute to the climate of conversation here”. That would work too. I noticed the absence of the customary “you mean well” — possibly because that would assume facts not in evidence. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280/100 "2018-12-01T16:39:03Z")
> [@Chip\_Dundas](#): > > So his business was trying to build in Russia? This is all about perjury traps. > > If they have something major, you will know because the stock market will drop a lot. People who tell the truth don’t worry about perjury traps. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-stuff-regarding-the-washington-post-and-the-mueller-investigation/825280.md?page=6)