# Great US ally Saudi Arabia arrests woman for shocking photo **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660 "2016-12-14T03:30:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/21 "2016-12-14T09:12:15Z")
> [@CatandMouse](#): > > Calm down. She’s simply explaining the rationale behind these ridiculous laws, not that she agrees with them. But it’s the rationale of bigoted assholes and that needs to be pointed out. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/22 "2016-12-14T09:23:15Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ll gladly count all of them as Saudi for the purposes of this discussion and throw in Shirin Ebadi, Mohamed El Baradei, Muhammad Yunus, Tawakel Karman, Malala Yousafzai, Orhan Pamuk, Mohammad Abdus Salam and Aziz Sancar, bringing the total up to twelve, with seven of those for Peace, two for Literature, two for Chemistry, one for Physics. Surprisingly, the good that these 12 have done gets overshadowed by women threatened with execution for failing to follow a dress code. Or girls being shot in the face for going to school. Or kidnapped and raped, for the same sin. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/23 "2016-12-14T09:33:58Z")
> [@Jane\_Smythe](#): > > It is another culture from the US or the West, and it is my belief, having lived around the world, that we must accept other cultures as they are. If we demand every other culture or country live by our standards, we would not have any allies or very few. Are there no cultural elements you believe are so bad other countries should lean heavily on the countries practising them? Do you think other countries should normalize their relationship with North Korea? I mean, I’m sure the people westerners interact with there would also say “The people I know don’t agree with the regime, but they accept it.” My personal opinion is that the oppressive Saudi laws are sufficiently bad that we should express our displeasure by limiting our interactions with them. The US doesn’t do that, in fact it does the exact opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/24 "2016-12-14T09:48:12Z")
> [@Jane\_Smythe](#): > > These folks are not Saudi, but they are from countries with very strong Islamic rules about the role of women in their societies. Please do not use us others to defend the Ibn Saud. > [@Giles](#): > > No, they are not: they are Egyptian and Palestinian, and Egypt and Palestine allow women to do many things that that are forbidden in Saudi Arabia, including appearing in public like the woman referred to in the OP. Saudi Arabia has a very narrow interpretation of Islam: one that is not shared by most other Muslim countries. Correct. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/25 "2016-12-14T11:04:40Z")
> [@Jane\_Smythe](#): > > It is another culture from the US or the West, and it is my belief, having lived around the world, that we must accept other cultures as they are. How very convenient that it’s the culture of the _powerful_ we are supposed to accept, and not that of the people they oppress. It’s nothing more than an attempt to excuse tyranny and blame the victims. You are using the same reasoning as the kind of people who try to defend the enslavement of black people in the Old South, demanding that we “respect” the slaver’s culture. But not that of the slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Smythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@Jane\_Smythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Smythe)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/26 "2016-12-14T11:09:25Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ll gladly count all of them as Saudi for the purposes of this discussion and throw in Shirin Ebadi, Mohamed El Baradei, Muhammad Yunus, Tawakel Karman, Malala Yousafzai, Orhan Pamuk, Mohammad Abdus Salam and Aziz Sancar, bringing the total up to twelve, with seven of those for Peace, two for Literature, two for Chemistry, one for Physics. Surprisingly, the good that these 12 have done gets overshadowed by women threatened with execution for failing to follow a dress code. She isn’t threatened execution. That’s not the law. The law is that she will get lashing. Though not at all good, it is not execution. It is extremists who are shouting execution: people no worse than our own right wing extremists. ---
**Author:** ![Jane\_Smythe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f04885/32.png) [@Jane\_Smythe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jane_Smythe)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/27 "2016-12-14T11:13:07Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > How very convenient that it’s the culture of the _powerful_ we are supposed to accept, and not that of the people they oppress. It’s nothing more than an attempt to excuse tyranny and blame the victims. > > You are using the same reasoning as the kind of people who try to defend the enslavement of black people in the Old South, demanding that we “respect” the slaver’s culture. But not that of the slaves. They are not oppressing anyone if you consider the people’s beliefs whom you are considering as the ‘oppressed.’ The woman agree with sharia law, for the most part, and accept their status. All an Arab women has to do is to leave the country and live in a ME country with less strict laws. She’s still a Muslim living an Islamic life, but she is not subject to total sharia law as she would be in Saudi. You are suggesting that strict sharia law is not the ‘culture’ of the women in Saudi, but it is. The woman in the picture can leave the country. No one is going to stop her. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/28 "2016-12-14T11:22:58Z")
> [@Jane\_Smythe](#): > > … The woman in the picture can leave the country. No one is going to stop her. If her husband or father allows her to leave, of course. ---
**Author:** ![lilihob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a9adbd/32.png) [@lilihob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lilihob)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/29 "2016-12-14T11:40:12Z")
> [@Jane\_Smythe](#): > > They are not oppressing anyone if you consider the people’s beliefs whom you are considering as the ‘oppressed.’ The woman agree with sharia law, for the most part, and accept their status. All an Arab women has to do is to leave the country and live in a ME country with less strict laws. She’s still a Muslim living an Islamic life, but she is not subject to total sharia law as she would be in Saudi. > > You are suggesting that strict sharia law is not the ‘culture’ of the women in Saudi, but it is. The woman in the picture can leave the country. No one is going to stop her. You are joking? Right? This is a meta joke about how a right on, middle class, kumbaya, white privilege, woman would think. I have a maid and a nanny, I demand feminist rights, and my husband Adrian MUST share all child care evenly. But female oppression, genital mutilation, sharia law, that’s culture. Hey, I have a culture too. It says that another culture that doesn’t let a woman have the same rights as a man, and won’t let her leave unless the man that owns her gives permission, is wrong. Now, whose culture are you going to argue with? Trick question. Mine, because it sounds a hell of a lot like yours. Self hating, right on liberal caricature. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/30 "2016-12-14T11:57:15Z")
> [@Jane\_Smythe](#): > > The woman in the picture can leave the country. No one is going to stop her. Wow, you sound like some right winger telling American liberals “America love it or leave it”. No, slavish obedience to the powerful is not a moral obligation of everyone who lives in the borders of a particular nation. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/31 "2016-12-14T12:18:19Z")
Clearly we invaded the wrong country in 2003. We should have made up a pretext to invade Saudi Arabia and taken their oil instead. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/32 "2016-12-14T12:38:10Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Clearly we invaded the wrong country in 2003. We should have made up a pretext to invade Saudi Arabia and taken their oil instead. Remind me what oil we took in 2003? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/33 "2016-12-14T12:42:17Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Remind me what oil we took in 2003? None, since the Iraqis kept blowing up their own pipelines to stop us. **asterion** should have said _"tried_ to take". ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/34 "2016-12-14T12:59:58Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > None, since the Iraqis kept blowing up their own pipelines to stop us. **asterion** should have said _"tried_ to take". I get it now. We didn’t steal their oil because they blew up every rig and expended every ounce of oil. Otherwise we would’ve, sure thing. And boy, how 2003 U.S. oil prices reflected such failure. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/35 "2016-12-14T13:26:53Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > I get it now. We didn’t steal their oil because they blew up every rig and expended every ounce of oil. No, they blew up the _pipelines,_ repeatedly. Those are very long and effectively impossible to guard. And yes, stealing the oil or money from it was a major reason we went there, and we didn’t even really bother much pretending otherwise until we failed and suddenly _oh no,_ we never meant to steal it. Bush was even boasting about how much profit the US would make from the attack beforehand. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/36 "2016-12-14T13:34:17Z")
> [@Jane\_Smythe](#): > > 1999 Ahmed Zewail First Egyptian Arab to win a Nobel Prize in Science Ahmed Zewail was an American citizen whose Nobel Prize-worthy work was done at Caltech. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/37 "2016-12-14T13:36:23Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, they blew up the _pipelines,_ repeatedly. Those are very long and effectively impossible to guard. > > And yes, stealing the oil or money from it was a major reason we went there… As to this, it’s nonsense for exactly the same reason Donald Trump’s claims that the USA SHOULD have stolen the oil are nonsense; you can’t do that. You cannot simply remove the oil reserves and magically transplant them across the sea. They have to be withdrawn with oil rigs and such over many years. There was no plan to “steal the oil,” nor could there have been. Only Trumpists believe such absurdities. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/38 "2016-12-14T13:47:18Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > No, they blew up the _pipelines,_ repeatedly. Those are very long and effectively impossible to guard. > > And yes, stealing the oil or money from it was a major reason we went there, and we didn’t even really bother much pretending otherwise until we failed and suddenly _oh no,_ we never meant to steal it. Bush was even boasting about how much profit the US would make from the attack beforehand. Wow, so they did expend every ounce of oil and left nothing for us (U.S.) to steal. And we admitted it beforehand. Wow, what idiots. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/39 "2016-12-14T13:52:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > None, since the Iraqis kept blowing up their own pipelines to stop us. **asterion** should have said _"tried_ to take". Geeze, everyone takes it so literally. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/40 "2016-12-14T14:00:19Z")
> [@lilihob](#): > > Self hating, right on liberal caricature. > [@Der Trihs](#): > > Wow, you sound like some right winger telling American liberals “America love it or leave it”. This amuses me, for some reason. Personally, I see Jane Smythe’s persona (I have my doubts regarding its sincerity) as more of a Stockholm-Syndrome victim, rather than a political partisan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660.md?page=3)