# Great US ally Saudi Arabia arrests woman for shocking photo **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 14, 2016, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660 "2016-12-14T03:30:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/121 "2016-12-17T17:46:05Z")
> [@CatandMouse](#): > > I certainly would hope not. I also don’t see anyone in agreement with the Saudi’s & their harsh punishment of this woman for not wearing her hijab. The point I was trying to make is that we are in no position to try and liberate or dictate laws or change their culture. > > Change will take place within their own country, just like it has here, with women fighting for equal rights. What fantasyland do you live in? Cultures aren’t equivalent. Change won’t take place where it is repressed with violence. And what does the US treatment of a killer have to do with Saudi treatment of women? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/122 "2016-12-17T21:59:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Saudi Arabia attempts to solve the problem by punishing anyone who gets raped, and pretending that rape doesn’t exist. Do you really expect that that works any better? And for damned certain I wouldn’t be accusing ANYBODY of rape, nor even telling my father/brother/husband/son [as appropriate] about it. Unless I had the requisite 3 [I think, might be 2 or more than 3] adult male nonrelated witnesses [who would probably have also been involved in raping me and therefor not willing to testify on my behalf] to back me up [do they allow video camera proof or is it still needs to be adult nonrelated male?] I would imagine that the numbers of unreported rapes are probably seriously high compared to the reported rapes … > [@CatandMouse](#): > > Find a mod and ask them to check our IP addresses. I would imagine it would be difficult for both of us to be online at the same time with two different IP addresses. Well, lets see - I am currently living in western NY on a Time Warner ISP, my husband is still back in Connecticut, are many of my personal noninternet based friends. If my friend LisaP joined the Dope at the same time I did [well, I didn’t know her back in 99 when I first ran into the dope via AOHell, but what the heck =)] she and I could be considered mutual socks by your thoughts as I doubt she would friend anybody else. Or my husband could have an account, he tried once, but since he was using my computer got shot down as a sock so he never bothered and reads/uses my account. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/123 "2016-12-18T20:11:46Z")
> [@CatandMouse](#): > > Good luck with that. > [http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/306990-trump-appeared-to-register-eight-companies-in-saudi-arabia](http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/306990-trump-appeared-to-register-eight-companies-in-saudi-arabia) Sounds like gross conflict of interest. It should be illegal (even if it isn’t now). On the other hand, I am not required to subscribe to any “equivalency” over it. But then the Saudis are also the fuckers who have been sponsoring international terrorism at least since the 1960’s. They finally admitted it this past year. So fuck them. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/124 "2016-12-18T21:50:51Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > And for damned certain I wouldn’t be accusing ANYBODY of rape, nor even telling my father/brother/husband/son [as appropriate] about it. Unless I had the requisite 3 [I think, might be 2 or more than 3] adult male nonrelated witnesses [who would probably have also been involved in raping me and therefor not willing to testify on my behalf] to back me up [do they allow video camera proof or is it still needs to be adult nonrelated male?] I would imagine that the numbers of unreported rapes are probably seriously high compared to the reported rapes … You’re not kidding, especially as the rape victim is charged and imprisoned whatever happens. Saudi Arabia has to be the only country in the world where being raped is a crime. Our leaders should not deal with these animals at all, they should be pariahs. Every time I see a US President smiling and shaking hands with their princes and sheikhs I want to puke. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/125 "2016-12-19T07:47:25Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > You’re not kidding, especially as the rape victim is charged and imprisoned whatever happens. Saudi Arabia has to be the only country in the world where being raped is a crime. Our leaders should not deal with these animals at all, they should be pariahs. Every time I see a US President smiling and shaking hands with their princes and sheikhs I want to puke. > [@](#): > > A Dutch woman who spent three months in custody in Qatar after reporting that she was raped is to be deported having been found guilty of adultery. > **[Dutch woman held in Qatar after rape claim to be deported](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/13/dutch-woman-qatar-rape-claim-to-be-deported)** > > The 22-year-old was given a one-year suspended sentence, while man accused of attacking her was sentenced to 140 lashes ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/126 "2016-12-19T14:27:48Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [snip] … Calling it “Wahabbist law” is more accurate; it’s not some purer form of Islam, it’s a radical offshoot. Holy BeJesus … Saudi’s have an ENTIRE POLICE FORCE out there enforcing their “cultural” elements … that doesn’t makes sense to me at all … why is culture a thing that must be enforced? … why is breaking from culture against the law? … I’m afraid that’s not culture … this is a political system … a system that silences half their “adult” population under threat of death … the Saudi royal family is no better than the Ku Kluz Klan … [“Clinton Library Got Funds From Abroad”](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/14/AR2007121402124.html) – Washington Post – Dec 15th, 2007 > [@](#): > > The royal family of Saudi Arabia gave the Clinton facility in Little Rock about $10 million, roughly the same amount it gave toward the presidential library of George H.W. Bush, according to people directly familiar with the contributions. This is just the tip of the iceberg … Saudi money goes to both sides of the American body politic … it doesn’t matter who you vote for, the candidate is bought and paid for as a Saudi shrill … “culture”? … okay … If the Saudi’s were so gaddam happy … why did them 15 Saudi nationals of the 19 hijackers think flying jumbo jets into the World Trade Center was a good idea? … Osama bin Laden, yes, a Saudi … It’s NOT culture, stupid person, it’s tyranny … there’s a difference … ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/127 "2016-12-19T16:01:03Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Holy BeJesus … > It’s NOT culture, stupid person, it’s tyranny … there’s a difference … It’s insanity. I hope none makes the mistake of thinking they are our friends. They never were and never will be. ---
**Author:** ![CatandMouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@CatandMouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatandMouse)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/128 "2016-12-19T18:10:34Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > What fantasyland do you live in? Cultures aren’t equivalent. Change won’t take place where it is repressed with violence. > > And what does the US treatment of a killer have to do with Saudi treatment of women? Bologna. The Arab Spring helped Saudi women win voting rights. The Arab Spring has led to the Saudi ballot box. For the first time ever, Saudi Arabia’s King Abdullah has granted women the right to vote and to run for local office in the Gulf kingdom–but not until 2015. “Because we refuse to marginalize women in society in all roles that comply with Sharia, we have decided, after deliberation with our senior ulama [clerics] … to involve women in the Shura Council as members, starting from the next term," Abdullah said in a speech Sunday. “Women will be able to run as candidates in the municipal election and will even have a right to vote.” > **[Saudi Women Win Voting Rights Thanks to Arab Spring](https://www.thedailybeast.com/saudi-women-win-voting-rights-thanks-to-arab-spring)** > > Saudi women allowed to vote, but that welcome reform leaves room for a lot of progress, Gayle Tzemach Lemmon reports. [http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/26/world/middleeast/women-to-vote-in-saudi-arabia-king-says.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/26/world/middleeast/women-to-vote-in-saudi-arabia-king-says.html) Arrogance. We are among the highest incarceration rate in the world. The amount of innocent people in prison is astounding. Yes we do execute innocent people and the mentally challenged. We have a problem with systematic racism in our justice department. Maybe before we think about changing laws/culture, we should clean up our own backyard. Something to think about… > **[The U.S. May Have A Lot of Innocent People on Death Row](https://time.com/79572/more-innocent-people-on-death-row-than-estimated-study/)** > > New numbers shine light on capital punishment > **[Why Are There Up to 120,000 Innocent People in US Prisons?](https://www.vice.com/en/article/9kvj3d/why-are-there-up-to-120000-innocent-people-in-us-prisons)** > > In a criminal justice system many say is broken, false confessions and plea bargains spurred by oppressive sentencing laws have put thousands of innocent people behind bars. > **[Fourteen Examples of Racism in Criminal Justice System](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/fourteen-examples-of-raci_b_658947)** > > Saying the US criminal system is racist may be politically controversial in some circles. But the facts are overwhelming. There's no real debate about that. Here's why. > **[Eight Charts That Show How the Justice System Is Stacked Against Black Americans](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/08/racial-disparities-in-the-criminal-justice-system-eight-charts-illustrating-how-its-stacked-against-blacks.html)** > > In the year since Michael Brown was killed, Americans have focused their attention on the harsh treatment of black Americans at the hands of police. A... ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/129 "2016-12-19T18:51:03Z")
> [@CatandMouse](#): > > Maybe before we think about changing laws/culture, we should clean up our own backyard. Something to think about… We can do both, y’know. If one must reach a state of perfection before criticizing others, then I’d ask what you’re doing here criticizing the US, instead of solving all the world’s problems from your Fortress of Solitude. It is true, however, that criticizing others requires one to be open to criticism of oneself. And that’s where people tend to stumble. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/130 "2016-12-23T01:40:03Z")
Reading a Gizmodo article on the kingdom today I was reminded that just leaving the country [doesn’t take one out of its sphere of influence](http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/10417739/Fears-for-Saudi-christian-converts). Telling the woman in the OP to move elsewhere if she doesn’t like it ignores that should she appear to be going against Saudi law while living in another country her remaining Saudi family could be given a deadline to correct her or bring her back for prosecution before the authorities do it themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/131 "2016-12-23T02:55:06Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Saudi Arabia, staunch friend and ally of the US, announce that they have arrested Malak al-Shehri for [this appalling photo.](https://twitter.com/dontcarebut/status/803496801378697216/photo/1) Quite understandably Saudi citizens have been calling for her to be beheaded and her corpse thrown to the dogs. > > Meanwhile the US has been busy trying to topple the Syrian administration and supporting Islamist rebels, many of whom are eager to impose the same lunatic restraints on women who at present in secular Syria are free to dress as they please and even (horror of horrors) drive cars. > > America, fighting for the rights of women across the world! :rolleyes: Hey if we’d just trade them Katy Perry or Nicki Minaj in exchange for her, they could do us a favor, lol. Only way that woman is immodest is if you’re a puritan, and if you are then everything is “porn”. Our “celebrities” however are something you’d have to go back to the perverted Roman emperors to find anything comparable to. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/132 "2016-12-23T03:14:24Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Hey if we’d just trade them Katy Perry or Nicki Minaj in exchange for her, they could do us a favor, lol. > > Only way that woman is immodest is if you’re a puritan, and if you are then everything is “porn”. Our “celebrities” however are something you’d have to go back to the perverted Roman emperors to find anything comparable to. Or alternately, modesty and shame are ideas created to control women and when they’re rejected in place of treating \*\*everyone \*\*as a person whose value has nothing to do w/ their level of attractiveness or reproductive ability everyone’s happier. Of course, that would mean the misogynists would have to find something within themselves to produce their feelings of superiority and there’s likely nothing to find. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/133 "2016-12-23T09:02:19Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Hey if we’d just trade them Katy Perry or Nicki Minaj in exchange for her, they could do us a favor, lol. How old are you? Fifteen? ---
**Author:** ![Calico\_Jack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calico_jack/32/7320_2.png) [@Calico\_Jack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calico_Jack)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/134 "2016-12-23T13:24:17Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Or alternately, modesty and shame are ideas created Not created, unless by a higher power, as they’re an innate part of the nature of not just humans, but other animals. No knowledge can be ‘created’, just discovered, unless you are a creationist. > [@](#): > > to control women Controlling those unfit to morally govern themselves is good for society. Putting murderers in prison for example. It’s always those most in need of control who whine the most about being controlled, like petulant children: [![](https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4nwcbZ2GF1qdl7ho.gif) ](https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4nwcbZ2GF1qdl7ho.gif) > [@](#): > > and when they’re rejected in place of treating \*\*everyone \*\*as a person whose value has nothing to do w/ their level of attractiveness or reproductive ability everyone’s happier. Their value does objectively have to do with their virtue, which of course a lack of modesty relates to a lack thereof. The virtuousness are never happy, they are tormented every day by their own vices and lusts, hence encouraging virtuous behavior is in their own best interests, as it helps deliver them from their own self-created misery, the consequence or karma of their own immorality. > [@](#): > > Of course, that would mean the misogynists would have to find something within themselves to produce their feelings of superiority and there’s likely nothing to find. Being virtuous is its own reward, and naturally produces feelings of superiority, as of course the virtuous are objectively superior to those who are not, and have a rightful duty to control those unfit of self-governance. Nothing more misogynistic as a woman behaving in the manner that would make even a feral dog blush, it’s treason to the self, and thankfully even many on the feminist side rightfully agree with this notion, in regards to degenerate American ranch culture. In truth Muslims are true feminists compared to those who market women as pieces of meat, and delight in encouraging women to be as easy as possible (as men no longer have to put in any virtuous effort to gain access to them): > **[Muslims Are the True Feminists](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/muslims-are-the-true-feminists_b_9877692)** > > As American women, many of us have an idea of what feminists are; freelancing women with all the sexual freedom in the world. But this is exactly the problem with American feminism; it is all about sex and the liberation of our bodies. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/135 "2016-12-23T13:29:24Z")
> [@Jane\_Smythe](#): > > I have lived and worked in the ME (not Saudi) for seven and a half years. I work with Middle Eastern people every day. Saudi is a full sharia nation. The people I know don’t agree with that but accept it. It is another culture from the US or the West, and it is my belief, having lived around the world, that we must accept other cultures as they are. If we demand every other culture or country live by our standards, we would not have any allies or very few. > > You will note that Saudi does not demand we live by their standards. Something to think about: the freedom that Western women have leads to thousands every year being abducted, raped, and murdered. I don’t think that we should change in anyway the freedoms Western women have: certainly I expect them for myself, but the point is that a culture like Saudi Arabia would say the freedoms women in our culture have lead to a lot of danger for them. > > I don’t think this woman should be arrested for what she did, but it is against the law in Saudi, so she knew what she was up against. We hear only the worst things about Saudi culture and form an understanding about it by those worst things. It’s just like other cultures knowing only the worst things about America and forming an overall opinion of the country by those things. Sure, if Saudi Arabia wants to put women under the lash for taking a photo without a hijab, they have the sovereignty to do so – and the rest of the world has the right to call that practice **barbaric**. Societies can change, but they sometimes need to be pressured to do so. Not that we would ever expect Saudi Arabia or any nation to model itself after Western libertarian ideals but liberty and humanity are not mutually exclusive concepts – a society can be restrictive and yet they can still be humane. That’s really all people would ask for, I think. And yes, that goes both ways. Just as we can call out Saudi Arabia or other societies for inhumane practices, they can criticize the United States for its school shootings, wealth inequality, and myriad other problems. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/136 "2016-12-24T23:49:31Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Controlling those unfit to morally govern themselves is good for society. > Their value does objectively have to do with their virtue, which of course a lack of modesty relates to a lack thereof. Scuse me? If I am not out spreading my legs for random men, and my HUSBAND is not upset with the way I dress, why would anybody have any say over me other than my husband? Why should I have to cover my arms, legs beyond the equivalent of a t-shirt and standard shorts [not [Daisy Dukes](http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2509810.1459358682!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/catherine-bach.jpg)] hair and possibly face? Because YOU [in the generic sense, not you specifically Calico Jack, though if you want to consider it a personal question directed to you specifically, knock yourself out] can’t control yourself? If I want to wear a hijab, [I have the option to no matter what country I am in,] but if I am dressed modestly [and frequently my traveling clothing historically has actually been salwar kameez and a scarf, they are comfortable and the scarf is great for acting like a minor blanket on a plane or train, but I am doing it for my comfort, not because I feel that jeans and a tshirt are immodest] why should I feel scared to travel dressed in a reasonable manner because a bunch of goatfuckers can’t seem to control themselves and has enacted legislation that lets them act like a damned fratboy on a drunken bender in Cancun. Asbestos undies on so flame away. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/137 "2016-12-27T19:55:13Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Not created, unless by a higher power, as they’re an innate part of the nature of not just humans, but other animals. No knowledge can be ‘created’, just discovered, unless you are a creationist. Which other animals are innately modest, pray tell? And do bear in mind that my dog is licking its arsehole in the corner of the room as I type this. Not really. I don’t own a dog. But I’ve seen them do it. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/138 "2016-12-27T20:04:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Which other animals are innately modest, pray tell? And do bear in mind that my dog is licking its arsehole in the corner of the room as I type this. > > Not really. I don’t own a dog. But I’ve seen them do it. My SO showed me a FB video of a woman who trained her dog to lick her koochie. That dog looked embarrassed. :eek::eek: ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/139 "2016-12-28T06:17:52Z")
> [@Calico\_Jack](#): > > Not created, unless by a higher power, as they’re an innate part of the nature of not just humans, but other animals. No knowledge can be ‘created’, just discovered, unless you are a creationist. > Controlling those unfit to morally govern themselves is good for society. Putting murderers in prison for example. It’s always those most in need of control who whine the most about being controlled, like petulant children: > > [Tumblr: Image](http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4nwcbZ2GF1qdl7ho.gif) > > Their value does objectively have to do with their virtue, which of course a lack of modesty relates to a lack thereof. > > The virtuousness are never happy, they are tormented every day by their own vices and lusts, hence encouraging virtuous behavior is in their own best interests, as it helps deliver them from their own self-created misery, the consequence or karma of their own immorality. > Being virtuous is its own reward, and naturally produces feelings of superiority, as of course the virtuous are objectively superior to those who are not, and have a rightful duty to control those unfit of self-governance. > > Nothing more misogynistic as a woman behaving in the manner that would make even a feral dog blush, it’s treason to the self, and thankfully even many on the feminist side rightfully agree with this notion, in regards to degenerate American ranch culture. In truth Muslims are true feminists compared to those who market women as pieces of meat, and delight in encouraging women to be as easy as possible (as men no longer have to put in any virtuous effort to gain access to them): > > [Muslims Are the True Feminists | HuffPost Religion](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gabby-aossey/muslims-are-the-true-feminists_b_9877692.html) I dress how I want, and if you don’t like it, you don’t have to look. I’ve never been marketed as a piece of meat and I’ve never regarded myself as one. Women should not be the ones who are punished for spoiled rotten baby men never having learned to control themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2016, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660/140 "2016-12-28T07:01:19Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Scuse me? > > If I am not out spreading my legs for random men, and my HUSBAND is not upset with the way I dress, why would anybody have any say over me other than my husband? Why should I have to cover my arms, legs beyond the equivalent of a t-shirt and standard shorts [not [Daisy Dukes](http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2509810.1459358682!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/gallery_1200/catherine-bach.jpg)] hair and possibly face? Because YOU [in the generic sense, not you specifically Calico Jack, though if you want to consider it a personal question directed to you specifically, knock yourself out] can’t control yourself? > > If I want to wear a hijab, [I have the option to no matter what country I am in,] but if I am dressed modestly [and frequently my traveling clothing historically has actually been salwar kameez and a scarf, they are comfortable and the scarf is great for acting like a minor blanket on a plane or train, but I am doing it for my comfort, not because I feel that jeans and a tshirt are immodest] why should I feel scared to travel dressed in a reasonable manner because a bunch of goatfuckers can’t seem to control themselves and has enacted legislation that lets them act like a damned fratboy on a drunken bender in Cancun. Asbestos undies on so flame away. I know that you won’t like hearing this, but Muslims and American liberals are two sides of the same coin. Muslims put ALL the onus on women to avoid bad outcomes. Liberals put ALL the onus on men to avoid bad outcomes. Neither side wants to admit that both men and women share responsibility. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-us-ally-saudi-arabia-arrests-woman-for-shocking-photo/774660.md?page=8)