# great victory for the homophobes! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843 "2003-09-06T00:10:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/101 "2003-09-07T11:45:55Z")
Can’t you adopt said person or at least get someone close to you to adopt said person? Even though you all are adults I believe you can still adopt if I’m not mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![pencilpusher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d6d6ee/32.png) [@pencilpusher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pencilpusher)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/102 "2003-09-07T11:51:08Z")
I am so sorry things didn’t work out as you wanted. I hope that some day soon everything changes and you can be truly happy. It really sucks that you (in general) have to be straight and married before whatever country you (in general) live in leaves you alone. I had never really paid attention to the “homosexual agenda” till I came here to Denver because it didn’t really concern me (even tho I am bi) and none of my gay friends ever said anything about it. Now, I am the person you (IG) see at the fairs, at the mall, on the street with a petition in my hands. I am asking total strangers to sign my measly piece of paper in hopes that one day soon my congressmen, senators, and illustrious president, will pull their religious heads out of their pompas asses and figure out that this isn’t about being gay… this is about being in LOVE which is a Godgiven RIGHT. It’s about 2 people being in love taking care of eachother, supporting eachother, and having the LEGAL RIGHT to do so. It shouldn’t be a matter of religion because everyone has different beliefs. Our dear president said on a televised oratory not long ago that HE doesn’t believe in gay marriages because it’s “morally wrong” WHO THE HELL does he think he is shoving HIS morality up our asses?(especially when there are MUCH better things… NM…) It’s NOT a moral issue you stupid ass it’s a LEGAL issue. Get out of our relationships damnit!! ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/103 "2003-09-07T12:19:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheLoadedDog \* > **This was called, IIRC, a Potential Spouse Visa, although the qualifying criteria did not include marriage. Is this the same as the Interdependent Partner one?** The two are different. As **Thylacine** says, the Interdependent Partner one does _theoretically_ allow for gay relationships to be recognised, but it’s got a bunch of hoops - including the one about 12 months cohabitation. The Potential Spouse Visa is for fiance(e)s of Australian residents (this, for some funny reason, is the one I’ve been reading up on). Chief among its requirements is that a legal marriage must take place within nine months after the visa applicant arrives in Australia (you can’t just say “Yeah, we’ll get married” - you actually have to have the date booked with a celebrant and a Notice of Intent to Marry lodged). And since gay marriage isn’t recognised in Australia… ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/104 "2003-09-07T20:54:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tavalla \* > \*\*Chief among its requirements is that a legal marriage must take place within nine months after the visa applicant arrives in Australia (you can’t just say “Yeah, we’ll get married” - you actually have to have the date booked with a celebrant and a Notice of Intent to Marry lodged). And since gay marriage isn’t recognised in Australia… \*\* You sure about this, **Tav**? Not doubting you, as both you and **Thylacine** probably know a lot more about it than I do, but has it possibly been tightened within the last three or four years? All I know is that one of my closest friends brought his girlfriend to Australia on a Potential Spouse Visa, **she is now a permanent Australian resident, and they are not married.** They could separate tomorrow, and she would be in absolutely zero danger of deportation. Now, the type of hoops they had to go through were of the “Green Card movie” type. The main one was that there was a minimum period of cohabitation. As a Justice of the Peace, I did an awful lot of paperwork for this guy, and believe me, it was a pile a foot high. Statutory declarations from friends, family, and acquaintances saying that they had seen the couple together and believed the relationship genuine, photographs from holidays together, utility bills in joint names. You name it, they had to do it. But it worked, and they are still de facto. Evidence of an appointment wiith a celebrant etc wasn’t in the picture. They never pretended for a moment to the authorites that they had any intention of becoming legally married. I’m just holding out a thin hope that this may be a way for a gay couple to slip through the net of legislated homophobia. I’m probably bloody wrong, but it’s nice to have a bit of hope. ---
**Author:** ![Thylacine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thylacine/32/1143_2.png) [@Thylacine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacine)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/105 "2003-09-07T22:07:19Z")
sounds like she came in on a fiance visa and now qualifies as interdependant **TLD** after getting up 12 months living together. Interdependant does cover de-facto straight couples but, as you can see, they have another way to get up to the 12 months qualification period that we do not. All the talk of finding another way does nothing for the original issue or for all the other folks in this situation. Many get around it, work/study visas, marriages of convenience, overstaying of visas etc. etc. Those people then lose the chance to speak up and change stuff for fear of own lives unravelling if they do. That is an excellent way to keep things as they are. I just cannot see who is benefiting from this. Who gets the payoff? Someone has to be happy here, surely. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/106 "2003-09-07T22:37:02Z")
Why yes, yes there are people who are happy here. Closed-minded Neanderthals (my apologies to the actual Homo neanderthalensis for the comparison) whose faith in their God is so shaky that any societal change that challenges their beliefs by giving tolerance to people they think they’re allowed to despise is fought tooth-and-nail as if their very survival depended on it. ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/107 "2003-09-07T23:10:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheLoadedDog \* > \*\*You sure about this, **Tav**? Not doubting you, as both you and **Thylacine** probably know a lot more about it than I do, but has it possibly been tightened within the last three or four years? \*\* Yep, I’m sure - got the forms and stuff sitting right by me, since this is how **galen ubal** and I are looking at getting him into Australia. As **Thylacine** says, your friends may have changed it to an interdependent one she was in the country and, once she’s got permanent residency - two years - they could split up, stay together, whatever would normally happen in their relationship. Fiance(e) visas carry the statement that you will marry but, after twelve months, they’ve got the cohabitation, joint bank accounts and so on to change over. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/108 "2003-09-07T23:22:05Z")
Fair enough, **Tav**. I’ll have to double check with my friend as it was a few years ago and I may disremember it slightly. **Thylacine** , **jayjay** , I also think that the political party in power benefits directly, regardless of its members’ personal views. It may have homophobic individuals in it, but even those who aren’t will no doubt put their conscience to one side if it means securing the gay-hating component of the electorate. The likes of One Nation (extreme nationalist Right) are always breathing down their neck: even the ALP (US equiv: Dem) has voters who fall into that weird redneck/left hybrid which would defect to the extreme right confederate-type parties over issues like this. All is not lost though. One Nation’s racism blew a second hole in that party’s own arse, with the Libs (US equiv: Rep) and the ALP responding in a halfway decent, if imperfect, fashion. With a smidgin of bipartisan support, we just might get somewhere on gay rights. By this, I mean calling the bluff of the extreme right parties - if Howard and Crean can stomach that. ---
**Author:** ![Thylacine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thylacine/32/1143_2.png) [@Thylacine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacine)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/109 "2003-09-08T00:04:00Z")
Is it just me or do the USA folks seem to assume I was trying to get into the USA to eat peanut butter cups and the antidopeans seem sure I wanted to import her to the land of vegemite and pavs? I think that says much about how we view our own lands livability. For the record, we were looking at both. Neither land has anything to be proud of though our mob _pretend_ to be good guys with the theoretical interdependent partner visa. I am not sure which is worse or harder to beat in the long term quite frankly. ---
**Author:** ![Thylacine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thylacine/32/1143_2.png) [@Thylacine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacine)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/110 "2003-09-08T00:31:17Z")
anti_dope_ans = down under dopers (DUDs) antipodeans = everyone else who lives here or over on the shaky isles ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/111 "2003-09-08T00:32:03Z")
Can’t speak for the others, but in my defence: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheLoadedDog \* > \*\*O fuck this is fucking fucked. We’ve got two Western, wealthy, democratic nations which are almost identical to one another - both relatively sparsely populated. If one Aussie or one Yank wants to move, who is it going to hurt? Nobody is looking at this as a cheap ticket out of the slums of a third world country, or to sneak off to a flying school, or a terrorist training camp… \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Thylacine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thylacine/32/1143_2.png) [@Thylacine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacine)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/112 "2003-09-08T00:46:11Z")
I was just noting a trend I thought I saw **TLD** , not knocking it. I think it is really amazing that nobody seems to be doing a NIMBY and blaming the other lot for the problems. This is why I love the SDMB ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/113 "2003-09-08T00:59:21Z")
Hmm, you’re right, **Thylacine**. I tended to assume ‘coming this way’ rather than ‘going that way’ because of my own situation. Whichever country it is and whatever direction of travel, the paperwork’s a bitch at the best of times - there’s not much to tell between 'em in terms of ease of use, from what I can see. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/114 "2003-09-08T01:07:26Z")
I have two offers of temporary housing for the **Thylacine** /partner combo, I believe both U.S. I haven’t heard from the U.S. immigration lawyer on the board, or anyone who might consider subsidizing her work. Let’s not give up on getting this to work yet! ---
**Author:** ![Thylacine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thylacine/32/1143_2.png) [@Thylacine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacine)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/115 "2003-09-08T01:24:57Z")
**Polycarp** , please. I have seen the miracles this board performs and I really love that you would like us to be another however: For four years there has been an answer just around the corner or in speaking to that person or if Clinton does this or Bush does that or Howard falls and breaks his neck or my back heals or or or… Four years of hope raised and hopes dashed. My partner has said _“enough!”_ and I do not blame her. We are over. Gone. Finito. Please use that wonderful heart, compassion, love and energy to try to change the laws involved for everyone effected by this cruel use of laws. ---
**Author:** ![leechbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@leechbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leechbabe)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/116 "2003-09-08T02:08:50Z")
**Thylacine** I’m drafting up a letter to the immigration minister. Do you mind if I send a copy of your OP along with it? Also I would like to send a copy of the letter & your OP to some of our current affair/news programs just on the off chance that someone might take an interest. You never know the “Aussie Battler Beat By The System” angle might take hold. Am happy to email you a copy of the letter for approval once I get it done. ---
**Author:** ![Thylacine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thylacine/32/1143_2.png) [@Thylacine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacine)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/117 "2003-09-08T02:19:39Z")
Go for it **Leechy**. I’d like to see the letter but I don’t think you need my approval to write to the Ruddock. As for the current affairs stuff I would need to think about giving them any personal details, I have been burned by them before on other unrelated issues and I dread to think of what they could do with this. thanks ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/118 "2003-09-08T02:33:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sanscour \* > \*\*If you don’t mind moving: > Both of you move to Vermont, the state I sprouted from. Not only do the majority of Vermonters not concern themselves with the sexual orientation of others (there are a few, but they are usually pretty crackpot. One old coot spouted off about how God would punish us with floods, tornadoes and other stuff if civil unions were made legal, as if meteorology hadn’t been invented yet), but gays and lesbians can marry legally there. > Maybe your SO could immigate under a different reason besides spouses, then you could take care of whatever else when that is done with? I dunno. > \*\* Unfortunately, civil unions (which are very much not marriage… think marriage light) do not deal with immigration. Civil unioning a non-US citizen won’t make them a US citizen. ---
**Author:** ![leechbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@leechbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leechbabe)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/119 "2003-09-08T04:15:44Z")
I’ve emailed my letter plus the OP to Mr Ruddock, I included my postal address so hopefully I’ll get a response. If any other Aussie dopers want to write into Mr Ruddock I am happy to email you the letter I used. The more people that make their protest heard the greater the chances are that something will be done. ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/120 "2003-09-08T10:28:05Z")
Send 'er over, leechy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843.md?page=7)