# great victory for the homophobes! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843 "2003-09-06T00:10:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/121 "2003-09-08T11:09:32Z")
**leechbabe** , I am in no way an Aussie\*, but I’d still like to see that letter. Heck, maybe folks sending email from the other side of the world might help the cause… [sub]\*Although I did see The Kids in the Kitchen play live in Cataract Park when I was there back in the day, and I can be spotted briefly in a TOFOG dvd. Does that count?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/122 "2003-09-08T12:21:33Z")
**Leechie** , if you and **Thylacine** are happy with it, I can host that letter on my space, and you can link to it here, or you are welcome to quote the entire thing as a post on G’Dope. I’d like to see it myself. ---
**Author:** ![leechbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@leechbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leechbabe)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/123 "2003-09-08T22:12:58Z")
Think to save time I might just post the letter here: [Contact The Minister](http://www.minister.immi.gov.au/contact/index.htm) > [@](#): > > 8 September 2003 > > Philip Ruddock MP > Dear Mr Ruddock, > > **Re: Immigration Laws Discriminating Against Same Sex Couples** > > I am writing to protest about the Australian immigration laws discriminating against same sex couples. > > Surely they should be treated in the same manner as heterosexual couples. > > Yet as the migration regulations currently state: > > \*MIGRATION REGULATIONS 1994 > > - REG 1.15A Spouse > > (1) For the purposes of these Regulations, a person is the spouse of another person if the 2 persons are: > > (a) in a married relationship, as described in subregulation (1A); or > > (b) in a de facto relationship, as described in subregulation (2). > > . . . > > (2) Persons are in a de facto relationship if: > > (a) they: > > (i) are of opposite sexes; and . . .\* > > This is clearly discrimination against same sex couples. > > Below is a moving story of how this discriminatory regulation hurts real people. > > Please can changes be made to the immigration laws so that same sex couples are no longer discriminated against? > > Regards > _Your Name_ > Australian Voter. Thanks **Muffin** for posting the regulations which I quoted in the letter. ---
**Author:** ![leechbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@leechbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leechbabe)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/124 "2003-09-08T22:16:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Below is a moving story of how this discriminatory regulation hurts real people. I cut and pasted the op into my email. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/125 "2003-09-08T22:35:19Z")
Thyla, I have a friend who married his boyfriend’s sister, so she came to live in the U.S., and was able to get her brother over afterward. Not an ideal solution, but thought I’d share it nonetheless. ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/126 "2003-09-09T14:31:48Z")
Sorry Thylacine. I don’t know what else to say. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/127 "2003-09-09T16:40:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Thylacine \* > The whole point is that we could if we were straight, no skullduggery involved. You know, I hate to break up a good “fuck those dictator, conservative, right-wing, fundie, homophobic bastards” pile-on that we’ve got going here but this statement pretty much summed up my problem with this whole thread. I can gladly refer you to our immigration attorney for more examples than you can count of **straight** couples in your same position. Of course, we won’t let that get in the way of a good straight bashing, oh no. MeanJoe ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/128 "2003-09-09T16:56:47Z")
The difference, of course, as it is in all permutations of the gay marriage debate, being that straight couples have the option of getting legally married and receiving all of those benefits mentioned with $25 and the flick of a pen. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/129 "2003-09-09T17:02:20Z")
25.00 and the flick of the pen? I guess the thousands of dollars and paperwork measured by the yard my wife and I have spent on immigration was… what then? Otherwise, point taken. ---
**Author:** ![Thylacine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thylacine/32/1143_2.png) [@Thylacine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacine)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/130 "2003-09-09T22:21:08Z")
hey **MeanJoe** , I haven’t seen anyone bashing straights, just homophobes and laws based in bigotry. I am sorry you and your wife had had to go through such trauma and I really hope that you are happily and safely together. I am not sure what my OP takes from you or your situation however, my partner and I just wanted the right to fill in the paperwork and throw money at bureacracy in the hope of a life together. We don’t have it. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/131 "2003-09-10T04:28:48Z")
**Thylacine** , I support efforts to change the laws so that you do have that right. I also can sympathize with your situation, although my wife and I are together I felt at times the fear that INS would keep that from becoming a reality. My apologies for sounding uncaring towards your plight. I did take exception to your comment as quoted, and others who have used terms like dictators, conservative, etc. being applied to straight people, that it is just so simple for us straight folk too. I concur with with you and **jayjay** that I do have options available to me that you and others do not, but I did resent the implication that it was also easy or that some of us with those options do not seem to care for the rest. Again, my apologies for sounding insensitive and I perhaps read more into the comments than intended due to my own anger, frustration, and the large sums of money involved in dealing with INS in my own personal situation. I wish you the best and hope in the future this changes. MeanJoe ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/132 "2003-09-10T06:05:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Thylacine \* > hey **MeanJoe** , I haven’t seen anyone bashing straights, just homophobes and laws based in bigotry. Except that “homophobe” seems to be “anyone who doesn’t agree with me” and “laws based on bigotry” seems to be “laws that I don’t like”. I emphasize with you, I really do. But there are many different reasons for these laws, and yes, some of those reasons aren’t rational, and a few of them are even bigoted. But on the whole, the laws are not based on bigotry. They are not intended to cause you pain. Accusing those you disagree with of bad faith simply shows you to be as closeminded and unwilling to consider other points of view as you accuse your opponents of being. You say that these people haven’t been in your shoes, and haven’t seen the pain these laws cause you. Well, you haven’t been in their shoes. Why should they care what your experiences are, when you don’t care what theirs are? ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/133 "2003-09-10T10:31:58Z")
**The Ryan** , pardon my bluntness, but what the fuck are you talking about? One moment they’re “‘laws based on bigotry’ meaning ‘laws I don’t like’”, the next minute “a few of them are even bigoted”. Make up your mind. The basics are this: as **Istara** has pretty clearly shown, there are discriminatory laws in play. What **Thylacine** is raging against isn’t another person - it’s an entrenched set of laws that have broken up a relationship. Lemme put it this way. **Thylacine** and I are in a very similar situation: we’re both Australians with partners from the US. The difference is, my partner’s male and I’m female: **Thylacine** and her partner are both female. What that means is, **galen ubal** and I will be able to take our chances with immigration departments (meaning we’ll jump through bureaucratic hoops, fill in reams of paperwork, pay large amounts of money and wait ridiculous amounts of time) and, hopefully, at the end of all that be able to be together. Meanwhile, **Thylacine** and her partner don’t get that chance. Were they a het couple, they’d have a good shot. _Specifically because they are a lesbian couple they are being screwed over_. She and her partner just wanted a chance at a good life together. It wouldn’t hurt anyone else, but they’re being barred from at least trying - and probably succeeding - by stupid bloody bureaucracy that can’t or won’t recognise that a F/F relationship can be just as genuine and lasting as a M/F one. What “other points of view” are there to consider? ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/134 "2003-09-10T10:37:16Z")
Goddammitall, I meant to include this in that post: **MeanJoe** , I hope you get everything straightened out and have no further problems with whichever you had to wrestle. I don’t think **Thylacine** is saying it’s easy for anyone - even for het couples, it’s an obstacle course at best. As you say, lots of money, time and whole forests dying for the paperwork. Just that, in her situation, there are extra high walls and explosives on the course. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/135 "2003-09-10T12:35:36Z")
It’s that she and her partner are not allowed in the race at all, when any het couple, married or not, is allowed in the race. ---
**Author:** ![Jervoise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d2c977/32.png) [@Jervoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jervoise)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/136 "2003-09-10T13:33:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > **Except that “homophobe” seems to be “anyone who doesn’t agree with me” and “laws based on bigotry” seems to be “laws that I don’t like”. I emphasize with you, I really do. But there are many different reasons for these laws, and yes, some of those reasons aren’t rational, and a few of them are even bigoted. But on the whole, the laws are not based on bigotry.** **The Ryan** , could you please explain to us the “different reasons” – those that not based in bigotry – behind a law which EXPRESSLY excludes same-sex relationships from immigration categories. **Thylacine** , I’m really sorry. How terrible for you and your partner. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/137 "2003-09-10T20:07:33Z")
Deja vu: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=111921&highlight=the+ryan](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=111921&highlight=the+ryan) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/138 "2003-09-10T21:08:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tavalla \* > **The Ryan** , pardon my bluntness, but what the fuck are you talking about? One moment they’re “‘laws based on bigotry’ meaning ‘laws I don’t like’”, the next minute “a few of them are even bigoted”. Make up your mind. I didn’t say that some of them of them are bigoted. I said that some people may support the laws for bigoted reasons. > [@](#): > > She and her partner just wanted a chance at a good life together. It wouldn’t hurt anyone else, but they’re being barred from at least trying If you really think that there’s no way immigration could hurt anyone, you should be ranting against immigration laws in general. Narrad > [@](#): > > The Ryan, could you please explain to us the “different reasons” – those that not based in bigotry – behind a law which EXPRESSLY excludes same-sex relationships from immigration categories. I don’t think I could do an adequate job, as I am not a proponent of the current immigration system. I don’t think it’s **good** , I just don’t think it’s **bigoted**. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/139 "2003-09-10T21:29:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muffin \* > \*\*Deja vu: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=111921&highlight=the+ryan](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=111921&highlight=the+ryan) \*\* But don’t forget [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=207350&perpage=50&pagenumber=2), in which you claim that men are violent psyphopaths who are likely to kill any woman who piss them off. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/140 "2003-09-10T21:50:00Z")
Are you referring to this post excerpt **The Ryan** : > [@](#): > > (By Muffin) > > The bottom line is that women are slightly more frequently victims of domestic violence than men, but not by much. Most importantly, however, women are about three times more likely than men to be victims of serious domestic violence or death. > > In other words, rate of violence is similar, but degree of violence is hugely different. Where is the claim that men are violent psychopaths? The claim is that men suffer less physical harm when being abused by women than women suffer at the hands of abusive males. We’re not talking all men, but those who abuse women. Are you denying the validity of this claim? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843.md?page=8)