# great victory for the homophobes! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843 "2003-09-06T00:10:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/161 "2003-09-18T22:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kung fu lola \* > No one is homosexual unless they choose that label for themselves. There is homosexual _behaviour_ and then there is homosexual _identity_. They are not the same. True, but I don’t see the relevance. Doesn’t that support my contention that it is conceivable that a straight man might want to marry another man? > [@](#): > > As for your last paragraph, I think you are confusing the word “valid” with the word “logical”. Again, not the same thing. No, we are not robots. None of us are solely motivated by logic. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/162 "2003-09-18T23:17:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > If I don’t like the rules on this board, it is no effort whatever to find an extra board. It’s somewhat more complex to immigrate to another country if the laws in one country discriminate against you, and it’s not something that should be expected of someone. You’re dodging the question. Is it discrimatory? > [@](#): > > Listen, I’m sure how many tens or hundreds of years ago when these laws were written, nobody had it in mind to screw us over. But that is their current effect. But the word “bigot” does not refer to effect, but to intent. > [@](#): > > The difference _is_ that if we have same-sex marriage, those who are opposed to it do not have to have a same-sex marriage. They can still marry their spouses. But if we do _not_ have same-sex marriage, I _can’t_ have one. I can’t marry my spouse. But this does affect everyone. Unless you oppose restrictions on immigration in general, you must acknowledge that there are public interest issues regarding who is let in. > [@](#): > > The point is, we’re not trying to invent something when we say it’s discriminatory. We already know the effects that it has. They come down on us constantly. Yes, it has effects. Yes, those effects fall on you more than the general populace. But that’s true of many laws. Not once in my life have I felt it necessary to know what the hunting season for deer is, yet there are people who plan their whole lives around it. You didn’t choose to be hoosexual? Well, they didn’t choose to love hunting. Yes, they choose to hunt, but they don’t choose to love to hunt. I think this needs to be repeated, since people have a tendency to misunderstand my point. My point is not that thise sort of law is fine and dandy. I understand that homosexuals are real human beings. But I also understand that the other side are real human beings. Sure, there are people like Phelps. But on the whole, they are not monsters. They do not take delight in the suffering of others. They are not going to read this thread and say “A lesbian is miserable! Woo-hoo!”. This is not, as the title claims, “a great victory for the homophobes”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/163 "2003-09-18T23:32:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Muffin \* > To The Ryan it is just a game. He has jigged us along, blatently denying the obvious, ingoring the logical, and out and out lying. You confuse that which you are convinced of for obvious and logical, and sarcasm for lies. A lie is a falsehood intened to deceive. Did you really think I intended to deceive anyone? Your hypocrisy is laid bare by your railing against a mockery of a lie, while leaving unremarked upon the lie itself. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/164 "2003-09-19T01:41:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Thylacine \* > \*\*Is it just me or do the USA folks seem to assume I was trying to get into the USA to eat peanut butter cups and the antidopeans seem sure I wanted to import her to the land of vegemite and pavs? I think that says much about how we view our own lands livability. > > For the record, we were looking at both. Neither land has anything to be proud of though our mob _pretend_ to be good guys with the theoretical interdependent partner visa. I am not sure which is worse or harder to beat in the long term quite frankly. \*\* When I read your OP I felt terribly sorry for you, but I have to admit that a little voice in the back of my head told me that you were breaking up anyway and you just wanted something to whine about. When you denied all the help being offered to you my suspicions were strengthened. When I read this you lost every ounce of my sympathy. I think it is a terrible and shameful thing that, in the year 2003, people are still being discriminated against for _any_ reason. It’s horrible to think that a governing body of people can tell you who you’re allowed to love in “their” country. It’s horrible and it makes me sick and my heart goes out to every single individual that has experienced once millisecond of inconvienience due to these barbaric laws, but in all honesty Thylacine, I really don’t like the way you’ve handled this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Thylacine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thylacine/32/1143_2.png) [@Thylacine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacine)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/165 "2003-09-19T03:34:36Z")
**Cisco** after four years of trying to conduct a relationship over long distance without seeing a hope for the future yes we broke. The fact is we should not have been long distance with no hope for the future for four years. We are human beings with needs and wants, not all of which can be conducted with 10000 miles between us. I saw in another forum today someone is appalled by the fact that fiance visas to the USA are now taking 2 years to process. I am also appalled, nobody should have to wait that long but when that wait may well be forever? Time to move on and hope to heal and perhaps salvage something of life. I had a double cancer scare this year, I am well aware of my own mortality and I am also aware of how hard it is to do the big life stuff with a partner so far away. There have been so many big things we haven’t been there for. You have no idea of what we have done or who we have consulted or how much money we have spent all the while trying to maintain what was a full partnership in the extraordinarily difficult realm of time differences, cyberspace and telephone. I have not seen anything suggested here that we have not tried (other than the breaking laws thing neither of us are comfortable doing). Yes we broke, I doubt we would have if we had been together. Our final 2 weeks in the same land were wonderful. Yes the OP was titled with great bitterness, this is the pit, I was feeling bitter and grieving and I ranted. I did not expect it to be on the front page for this length of time and my mood has changed somewhat as has the thread. The first paragraph you quote above was just a friendly _hey look at how we are splitting as nationalities_ as the issues are minorly different and the waters were potentially getting a little muddied. The second was referencing the fact is that my government does claim to allow same-sex couples immigration so will not further address the issue when in practicality it has a qualifying period that it does not offer a visa for. I find that possibly more distateful than the blanket no that the USA offers. YMMV The point remains, until we have some form of legally recognised partnership and our legal codes reflect this we are being treated unfairly. I have no interest in being a poster child or a shining light. I want an ordinary life with my life partner. We were denied, we tried to hang in and we broke. I fail to see how that changes thew facts that had we been a straight couple we likely would have woken up together this morning. I am of course devastated that I failed to please you **Cisco** , that is after all my only mission on earth. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/166 "2003-09-19T07:01:15Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by The Ryan \* > But this does affect everyone. Unless you oppose restrictions on immigration in general, you must acknowledge that there are public interest issues regarding who is let in._\* Of course there are. I’d be happy for someone to be excluded from immigration because they had a criminal record for serial armed robbery, for instance. But someone’s sexuality isn’t something I’d consider a crucial issue. It has sweet FA to do with whether they’ll be a valuable member of a society, or the genuineness of a relationship. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/167 "2003-09-19T21:11:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tavalla \* > \*\*Of course there are. I’d be happy for someone to be excluded from immigration because they had a criminal record for serial armed robbery, for instance. But someone’s sexuality isn’t something I’d consider a crucial issue. It has sweet FA to do with whether they’ll be a valuable member of a society, or the genuineness of a relationship. \*\* But no one’s sexuality is being considered (AFAIC). No one asks what your sexuality is. And plenty of non-criminals are turned away. ---
**Author:** ![Thylacine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thylacine/32/1143_2.png) [@Thylacine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thylacine)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2003, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/168 "2003-09-19T22:40:53Z")
I am done here, I ranted bitterly at the end of a relationship and 14 days of having my pain on the front page is enough for me. I have requested that it be closed, I have no idea if it will be but I am out of it. May I suggest the semantics be taken to GD. ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2003, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/169 "2003-09-20T12:53:14Z")
Sorry, **Thylacine** - my last post here too. **The Ryan** , are you being deliberately dense or are you just naturally daft? A heterosexual couple has access to fiance(e) and marriage visas. A homosexual couple does not. As for no-one asking, it’s going to be pretty freakin’ obvious to anyone with half a freakin’ brain - possibly even you - that Thylacine and her partner are both women. ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2003, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843/170 "2003-09-21T18:00:17Z")
Closed at the request of the OP - and sorry for the bump that causes. All the best, Thycaline. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/great-victory-for-the-homophobes/199843.md?page=8)