# Greatest 20th Century Novels: Which Have You Read? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 28, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598 "2012-06-28T16:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/101 "2012-06-30T01:12:25Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > To all the people decrying James Joyce as bullshit, you have to remember that at the time what he was doing was revolutionary. > > It may seem like malarky now (even though it isn’t, trywriting400pagesdeeplydensestreamofconsciousnessladenwithrichhistoricallingusiticandliteraryreferencesyou) but at the time it was absolutely moldbreaking. I actually enjoyed _Ulysses_. ---
**Author:** ![Suil\_Dubh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85f322/32.png) [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/102 "2012-06-30T01:19:13Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I actually enjoyed _Ulysses_. I actually don’t like Joyce at all, ha ha ha. My father was a great fan and tried to get me to read “Portrait”, but I just couldn’t get into it. But I do have incredible respect for Joyce and for the people who appreciate his work. Many, many years ago I read an essay or a chapter in a book by Robert Anton Wilson pointing out all the 23 and Illuminati references in Joyce’s work. There was far more malarkey and wishful thinking than truth in that piece, but it was very entertaining reading. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/103 "2012-06-30T01:20:28Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > I actually don’t like Joyce at all, ha ha ha. Not even _Dubliners_? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Suil\_Dubh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85f322/32.png) [@Suil\_Dubh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suil_Dubh)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/104 "2012-06-30T01:40:32Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Not even _Dubliners_? ☹ Read most of “Portrait” and skimmed through my old man’s copies of “Ulysses” and “Finnegan’s Wake”. That’s it. It’s been years since I last attempted to scale Mount Joyce, but I’m happy to try the “Dubliners” on your recommendation. Thanks for that. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/105 "2012-06-30T03:47:56Z")
> [@Suil\_Dubh](#): > > Read most of “Portrait” and skimmed through my old man’s copies of “Ulysses” and “Finnegan’s Wake”. That’s it. > > It’s been years since I last attempted to scale Mount Joyce, but I’m happy to try the “Dubliners” on your recommendation. Thanks for that. It’s a bit more conventional. A series of short stories. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/106 "2012-06-30T04:03:11Z")
Some very excellent short stories - _The Dead_ perhaps foremost among them (although I love _Araby_ too). I vote for 20 but have actually read Call of the Wild as well, so 21. And I’d say I got something out of almost all of them. Maybe not A House for Mr. Biswas, which was indeed pretty dire - although I read it because I adored A Bend in the River. And yeah, Things Fall Apart should be on there as well as To Kill a Mockingbird, but this isn’t really a thread about the list, I suppose. Very surprised there was nothing by Marquez either - or was this English only? ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/107 "2012-06-30T11:46:44Z")
I’ve only read a few as sci-fi was my reading choice when I did the bulk of my reading. I’m actually half way through **The Catcher in the Rye** and non too impressed. I read **Catch 22** last year after **Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas** and I think they’re both genius works. Interesting that more than four in five respondents have read **1984** , **Lord of the Flies** and **Animal Farm** (at least one of them, anyways). I’m guessing they’re required reading for young, developing minds both sides of the Atlantic. Interesting, as in a little worrying. ---
**Author:** ![oreally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ab992/32.png) [@oreally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oreally)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/108 "2012-06-30T15:05:36Z")
Bad poll. Need more choices. :dubious: I guess I’m worse off than I figured; I haven’t even heard of many of these, never mind read. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/109 "2012-06-30T15:41:08Z")
Thirteen (13) for me, but if we could include “saw the movie” I would have a lot more! Oh, and another WTF for no _To Kill a Mockingbird_. ---
**Author:** ![MyFactCheckBounced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MyFactCheckBounced](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFactCheckBounced)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/110 "2012-06-30T15:57:19Z")
To love _Ulysses_ (guilty) you have to love parody, and get your head around all the forms being parodied. A lot of the time people look at _Ulysses_ as indecipherable. It’s pretty clear once you get that Joyce was mind-freaking you about form while telling the story. I’d still say it’s not one to read once and assume you’ll “get it” like a beach-reading book about a mean serial killer or something. Here’s my complaint: I _assume_ a list like this will leave out something I think is great or stick in something I think is overrated, blah blah blah. But how do they make the _Alexandria Quartet_ one book? Come on, I lost 3 credits on that one. Plus, if you just read _Justine_ you could probably tell yourself you got the whole story, and of course you did, just not everybody’s view of it. The whole point of the quartet was the extension of physical relativity to an interpersonal metaphor, which is revolutionary in literature, although to be fair it shouldn’t be. In any event, I was also struck by how many works I had to stop and think about – some stories are repeated so often or referenced so commonly that you smack yourself on the head and say “Whoa! I _never read that!_” Pretty fascinating. And 22 :(… I’d have thought more. How intimidating. ---
**Author:** ![MyFactCheckBounced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MyFactCheckBounced](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFactCheckBounced)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/111 "2012-06-30T16:03:07Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Some very excellent short stories - _The Dead_ perhaps foremost among them (although I love _Araby_ too). … > > Very surprised there was nothing by Marquez either - or was this English only? Same. You’d think at least _100 Years of Solitude,_ but I could go with several of his others too. I think _Sophie’s Choice_ got the hit movie bump and _Henderson the Rain King_ got the Counting Crows bump here. Right okay, not a thread about the list not a thread about the list not a thread about the list… ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/112 "2012-06-30T16:06:54Z")
> [@MyFactCheckBounced](#): > > But how do they make the _Alexandria Quartet_ one book? Come on, I lost 3 credits on that one. Plus, if you just read _Justine_ you could probably tell yourself you got the whole story, and of course you did, just not everybody’s view of it. The whole point of the quartet was the extension of physical relativity to an interpersonal metaphor, which is revolutionary in literature, although to be fair it shouldn’t be. My copy of it is in one volume, but I doubt it’s been published that way for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/113 "2012-06-30T16:23:09Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Very surprised there was nothing by Marquez either - or was this English only? [Yes, it was.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Library#Modern_Library_lists) > [@](#): > > (The lists were actually restricted to works in English, but titles of the lists do not reflect this, and little attention was paid to the fact in publicity for the lists.) Article on the making of the list: [The Lowdown on the Literary List](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/books/features/novels0805.htm) > [@](#): > > Despite the Modern Library’s assertion that the board “selected and ranked” these 100 works as the best 20th-century novels written in English, the members say they never ranked much of anything. The board members merely checked off books from a master list of 440 titles supplied by the classics publisher, without putting them in any particular order. > > Executives at Random House, the publishing conglomerate that owns Modern Library, then tallied the number of judges who mentioned each book. (Several judges did not even mention 100 books.) The vast majority of books tied with many other titles – mentioned by four judges, say, or three. Judges were not asked to sort out these ties; instead, Random House brass took all the dead heats and turned them into rankings. > … > In interviews, the judges do not even agree on what they were ranking – the best-written books, or the most important, or the most influential. One judge acknowledges that he voted for books he has not actually read. > > “Brave New World,” a pioneering novel of Utopia turned bad, reached its exalted heights simply because a lot of judges agreed it belonged somewhere on the list. But only one judge believed it belonged anywhere near the top. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/114 "2012-06-30T17:09:00Z")
I thought it was only six or eight, but I went back and counted and found 12. Each of my selections were among the more popular of the list (100 or more), with the exception of Kim and I, Claudius. I must confess that the Great Books ™ don’t really speak to me. I’m happier with SF, historical fiction, mysteries (especially Dorothy L. Sayers, whose works SHOULD quality as Great Books), etc. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/115 "2012-06-30T17:15:00Z")
Misery loves company, so perhaps the eight other Dopers who also read the _Alexandrian Quartet_ and I can form a support group. Good to see _The Maltese Falcon_ getting its due as one of the great works of literature of the twentieth century. One of those books it is good to “read” as well as “have read”. I think of science fiction as the preeminent genre of the 20th, so I always want more sci-fi on lists like this. A friend of mine actually recommended _The Magus_ - maybe I will tackle that next. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/116 "2012-06-30T17:30:54Z")
> [@MyFactCheckBounced](#): > > But how do they make the _Alexandria Quartet_ one book? Come on, I lost 3 credits on that one. Plus, if you just read _Justine_ you could probably tell yourself you got the whole story, and of course you did, just not everybody’s view of it. The whole point of the quartet was the extension of physical relativity to an interpersonal metaphor, which is revolutionary in literature, although to be fair it shouldn’t be. Well that’s not exactly right, the whole point of the (x,y,z) novels is to give you three independent views of the same events, all of which are necessary to get the full picture of those events…_Clea_ then adds (t). If all you read was _Justine_, there’s a lot more she doesn’t realize, and I recommend you go back again (if you enjoyed it at all). > [@Shodan](#): > > A friend of mine actually recommended _The Magus_ - maybe I will tackle that next. I just read this a few years ago, and it’s great. Oddly the physical environment of the book reminded me of bits of the Alexandria Quartet, particularly _Clea_ and _Balthazar_, but it’s thematically different and a lot darker. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/117 "2012-06-30T23:26:04Z")
> [@JustinC](#): > > Interesting that more than four in five respondents have read **1984** , **Lord of the Flies** and **Animal Farm** (at least one of them, anyways). I’m guessing they’re required reading for young, developing minds both sides of the Atlantic. > > Interesting, as in a little worrying. I didn’t vote in the poll, but I’ve read all three and not as a young student. _1984_ and _Animal Farm_ I read on my own in my 20s. _Lord of the Flies_ I just read a few months ago. ---
**Author:** ![MyFactCheckBounced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MyFactCheckBounced](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFactCheckBounced)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/118 "2012-07-01T02:06:36Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Well that’s not exactly right, the whole point of the (x,y,z) novels is to give you three independent views of the same events, all of which are necessary to get the full picture of those events…_Clea_ then adds (t). If all you read was _Justine_, there’s a lot more she doesn’t realize, and I recommend you go back again (if you enjoyed it at all). > > I just read this a few years ago, and it’s great. Oddly the physical environment of the book reminded me of bits of the Alexandria Quartet, particularly _Clea_ and _Balthazar_, but it’s thematically different and a lot darker. That was specifically the content of my post, Maser. As I stated – and as Durrell stated before me – the novels were specifically extensions of the implications of relativity from the physical world (as in theoretical physics) to the interpersonal world (the realization on the author’s part that the same basic principle pertains - that you can’t tell the story independently from one frame of reference/point of view and have it be valid from the others. That’s due to the parts of the story a given character is present for, and of course also due to different viewpoints of the various characters. Read your _Balthazar_ again, and this time don’t skip the preface 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/119 "2012-07-01T02:42:10Z")
> [@MyFactCheckBounced](#): > > That was specifically the content of my post, Maser. As I stated – and as Durrell stated before me – the novels were specifically extensions of the implications of relativity from the physical world (as in theoretical physics) to the interpersonal world (the realization on the author’s part that the same basic principle pertains - that you can’t tell the story independently from one frame of reference/point of view and have it be valid from the others. That’s due to the parts of the story a given character is present for, and of course also due to different viewpoints of the various characters. > > Read your _Balthazar_ again, and this time don’t skip the preface 😉 Yeah, I know all that…I was responding to: > [@](#): > > …if you just read Justine you could probably tell yourself you got the whole story, and of course you did, just not everybody’s view of it. In the subsequent two books, there are chunks of time that aren’t even contemporaneous with Justine, IIRC both before and after. ---
**Author:** ![MyFactCheckBounced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MyFactCheckBounced](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFactCheckBounced)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598/120 "2012-07-01T03:18:38Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Yeah, I know all that…I was responding to: > > In the subsequent two books, there are chunks of time that aren’t even contemporaneous with Justine, IIRC both before and after. Okay, and check (as in “yes I agree, I believe you do RC”) That’s under the relativity rubric too. Well, this has been quite the heated agreement. So, having no mortal internet enemy, I’m kind of tired & will just say thanks for reading the Quartet. I’ve been reminded of them ever since Egypt’s last election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-20th-century-novels-which-have-you-read/626598.md?page=7)