# Greatest American elimination game (game thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 10, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423 "2010-02-10T15:08:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/181 "2010-02-22T14:27:02Z")
James Polk x 5 George Patton x 5 ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/182 "2010-02-22T14:32:01Z")
I too am **changing** my votes in an attempt to save TJ. (boldface to draw attention to the fact that this is a revision of an earlier vote.) Tecumseh 3 Philo T. Farnsworth 4 Joshua Chamberlain 3 ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/183 "2010-02-22T14:32:21Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Given the way this round has played out, I am forced to change my votes: > > James Polk > George Patton > Audie Murphy 2 > Leonard Bernstein 3 > John Brown 3 > > It does hurt to have to cast votes for people I genuinely respect, but as I said above, Jefferson is too important a figure in American history to bounce like this. In response to Bob’s entry, please redact my ballot to read as follows: Audie Murphy 2 Tecumseh 2 Leonard Bernstein 3 John Brown 3 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/184 "2010-02-22T14:41:08Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > And Nixon accomplished equally as many great things yet he was defeated with nary a defender. > > Had Richard Nixon been elected in 1960 there would have been to Cuban Missile Crisis in the first place. Khruschev only did that because he though JFK was inexperienced and weak. Nixon established the EPA and continued numerous Great Society programs. He took America off the gold standard (a wise decision in my view) and continued desegreation. He pursued detente with the Soviet Union. He opened up China allowing for the economic boom of that country. He tried to save South Vietnam and brought a peace that could indeed have saved it had Ford been more decisive or if Nixon had remained President. I doubt the assumption that Khruschev was feeling out a young inexperienced president. If that was the case, then why wasn’t it done in 1961? I might also point out that if JFK had listened to the generals (including a certain Air Force general), none of us would be alive today to tell the story. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/185 "2010-02-22T14:43:46Z")
Thanks for the way you formatted those posts, Stu. As a request going forward (nobody needs to revise previous posts), if you are planning on changing your votes, please quote your original voting post so it’s easier for me to see how the votes have changed. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/186 "2010-02-22T14:44:19Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > In response to Bob’s entry, please redact my ballot to read as follows: > > Audie Murphy 2 > Tecumseh 2 > Leonard Bernstein 3 > John Brown 3 Sorry to dizzy the tabulators so, but in concurrance with Ms. Whatsit: Audie Murphy 2 Joshua Chamberlin 2 Leonard Bernstein 3 John Brown 3 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/187 "2010-02-22T14:52:11Z")
Given the way things are progressing this morning, I think we need another standings update: 1 Andrew Carnegie 17 2 George S. Patton 17 3 James K. Polk 15 4 Tecumseh 11 5 J.P. Morgan 11 5 Philo T. Farnsworth 11 5 Leonard Bernstein 11 8 Thomas Jefferson 10 8 Audie Murphy 10 8 John Brown 10 8 John Adams 10 Joshua Chamberlain 9 Aaron Copland 5 John Marshall 5 Sitting Bull 5 Langston Hughes 4 Helen Keller 4 Jim Thorpe 4 Jesse Owens 4 Henry Bergh 3 Albert Einstein 2 Jackie Robinson 2 Upton Sinclair 2 Walt Whitman 2 Dwight D. Eisenhower George Gershwin Lewis and Clark James Madison Edward R. Murrow Thomas Nast John J. Pershing Edgar Allen Poe Will Rogers Jonas Salk John von Neumann ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/188 "2010-02-22T14:55:05Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > My votes: > > Andrew Carnegie 5 (If Cesar Chavez goes out for violence related to labor disputes, how do Carnegie and his Pinkertons stay in?) > George S. Patton 2 (Too many World War II generals, and Patton was the least accomplished) > Philo T. Farnsworth 1 > Jesse Owens 1 > Jim Thorpe 1 And I will revote: Andrew Carnegie 2 (-3) Audie Murphy John Brown John Adams Alexander Hamilton will have to wait for next round for his part in the Alien and Sedition Acts. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/189 "2010-02-22T14:56:34Z")
Which brings the top of the standings to: 1 George S. Patton 17 2 Andrew Carnegie 14 3 James K. Polk 15 4 Tecumseh 11 4 J.P. Morgan 11 4 Philo T. Farnsworth 11 4 Leonard Bernstein 11 4 Audie Murphy 11 4 John Brown 11 4 John Adams 11 Thomas Jefferson 10 Joshua Chamberlain 9 Aaron Copland 5 John Marshall 5 Sitting Bull 5 ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/190 "2010-02-22T14:57:49Z")
Oh, whoops, I missed the request to quote my prior post if changing votes. Will keep this in mind in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/191 "2010-02-22T15:02:21Z")
Note: above votes were in error; I counted Stus unvotes of adams as a second set of votes. Will modify appropriately in a moment. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/192 "2010-02-22T15:03:24Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > And I will revote: > > Andrew Carnegie 2 (-3) > Audie Murphy > John Brown > John Adams > > Alexander Hamilton will have to wait for next round for his part in the Alien and Sedition Acts. So this becomes Andrew Carnegie 1 (-1) John Adams 0 (-1) Joshua Chamberlain 2 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/193 "2010-02-22T15:06:18Z")
And a corrected standings update: 1 George S. Patton 15 1 James K. Polk 15 3 Andrew Carnegie 13 4 Leonard Bernstein 11 4 John Brown 11 4 Joshua Chamberlain 11 4 Philo T. Farnsworth 11 4 J.P. Morgan 11 4 Audie Murphy 11 4 Tecumseh 11 Thomas Jefferson 10 Aaron Copland 5 John Marshall 5 Sitting Bull 5 Langston Hughes 4 Helen Keller 4 Jim Thorpe 4 Jesse Owens 4 Henry Bergh 3 Albert Einstein 2 Jackie Robinson 2 Upton Sinclair 2 Walt Whitman 2 Dwight D. Eisenhower George Gershwin Lewis and Clark James Madison Edward R. Murrow Thomas Nast John J. Pershing Edgar Allen Poe Will Rogers Jonas Salk John von Neumann John Adams 0 I personally will not do any more revoting for the rest of the round. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/194 "2010-02-22T15:06:52Z")
Tom, you are the man. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/195 "2010-02-22T15:08:26Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Oh, whoops, I missed the request to quote my prior post if changing votes. Will keep this in mind in the future. I actually made the rule up on the fly, seeing how Stu did his post; thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Reloy3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c68b51/32.png) [@Reloy3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reloy3)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/196 "2010-02-22T15:15:08Z")
My votes (hope I’m not to late) Audie Murphy John Brown (x4) Aaron Copland Helen Keller Thomas Nast Walt Whitman Will Rogers ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/197 "2010-02-22T15:44:18Z")
In the spirit of others in this thread, I am going to make a quick plea on behalf of **Henry Bergh** , who languishes in obscurity not because of his accomplishments (or lack thereof), but probably because he lacked the egotistical zeal for self-promotion that put people like P. T. Barnum, Douglas MacArthur, Walt Disney, and every single president on the list. Does he deserve to be the greatest American? Probably not, but I’d like to see him not get wiped off due to “obscurity.” Bergh founded the first animal welfare organization in the United States. Admittedly one had been founded considerably earlier in England. We’re not talking a fringe movement to give gorillas voting rights; this was a “don’t beat, maim, and kill animals” society in an age when that was nearly universally common practice and frequent entertainment. His organization worked not just to advocate, but directly with state law enforcement, serving as the model for the commonly-seen modern cooperation in which humane societies run shelters for local governments, an arrangement that has saved a lot of taxpayer money in addition to reducing a lot of suffering. Whenever I advocate on behalf of animals, someone inevitably makes the argument that I should “think of the children” instead. Well, Bergh neatly anticipated that argument by co-founding the world’s _first_ child-protective agency. The thought that children were not property didn’t _begin_ with Bergh, but he gave it impetus toward becoming official policy. Children were essentially at the mercy of adults in a merciless age until Bergh came along and showed us that we didn’t have to be helplessly outraged individually, we could organize (and petition government) to alleviate the suffering effectively. Bergh was as instrumental as anyone in developing our modern sensibility that the helpless and small among us, those who cannot speak for themselves, either because they are young or nonhuman, should not be abused or mistreated. Most child- and animal-oriented public agencies and charities owe a part of their philosophical underpinnings to him. He won no wars and invented no industrial process. What he _did_ do was help in some ways to make America a place we don’t have to be quite so ashamed of; not just the land of the free and the home of the brave, but a safer place for the small and the weak too. **Leonard Bernstein** : Composer, conductor, educator **Andrew Carnegie** : Industrialist, philanthropist **Aaron Copland** : Composer, musician **Ralph Waldo Emerson** : Philosopher, writer **Philo Farnsworth** : TV piorneer, inventor **x2** **George Gershwin** : Prolific, versatile composer **Alexander Hamilton** : Financier, economist, statesman **J.P. Morgan** : Financial giant, tycoon **George S. Patton** : WWII general, orator I’m using my votes without particularly aiming them to preserve anybody. Just dinging musicians and tycoons mostly; with a side order of one self-important general and our scapegoat for TV (because Aaron Spelling isn’t on the list, heh). Oh, and Emerson always seemed to be sort of self-promoting. When asked if “civilized” Westerners were smarter or dumber than hunter-gatherers, Jared Diamond gave a two part answer why he thought hunter-gatherers are, on average, more intelligent than we are. The first part was complex and irrelevant to this topic; the second part of his reasoning that we are stupider was, in its entirety, “because we have television.” ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/198 "2010-02-22T16:17:29Z")
Well this game has gotten skewed by the revotes in my opinion. Come-on, someone else pony up another vote for **Jefferson**. He should be cut from the herd of great Americans. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/199 "2010-02-22T16:19:38Z")
I stand corrected, **Curtis**. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/200 "2010-02-22T16:23:59Z")
Sorry, dude. I think that Jefferson, even with his flaws, was one of our greatest thinkers, and while perhaps is not THE greatest American, certainly does not deserve to be cut at this early stage. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423.md?page=11)