# Greatest American elimination game (game thread) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 10, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423 "2010-02-10T15:08:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/221 "2010-02-22T23:17:46Z")
Man, I’m going to be sad to see Aaron Copland go (he’s my favorite composer) but I’m not strongly enough invested in him to actually do anything about it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/222 "2010-02-22T23:37:44Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Early Count: > > (snip) > > Don’t mean to overstep, but as long as I was doing it for me, I figured I’d share. No problem at all. For what it’s worth, my count matches 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/223 "2010-02-22T23:40:27Z")
Albert Einstein 5 Edward R Murrow 5 ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/224 "2010-02-22T23:59:57Z")
Man, I was really looking forward to this one. I’m sad I missed the first part. Here’s my votes for this round: Edward R Murrow Robert Frost Aaron Copland Upton Sinclair Sitting Bull John Pershing John von Neumann Thomas Nast Henry Bergh Susan B. Anthony ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Credible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a8b319/32.png) [@Justin\_Credible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Credible)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/225 "2010-02-23T01:20:06Z")
I’m actually pretty disappointed that Jefferson was spared last round. A great American to be sure, but what fun is the game going to be if it just comes down to the predictable Washington/Lincoln/Jefferson/Franklin matchup at the end? Sometimes seeing a big upset in an early round is the most fun part of a game like this. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Credible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a8b319/32.png) [@Justin\_Credible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Credible)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/226 "2010-02-23T01:36:59Z")
Chief Joseph x3 Langston Hughes x2 Earl Warren x2 Jesse Owens x3 ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/227 "2010-02-23T02:07:33Z")
> [@Justin\_Credible](#): > > I’m actually pretty disappointed that Jefferson was spared last round. A great American to be sure, but what fun is the game going to be if it just comes down to the predictable Washington/Lincoln/Jefferson/Franklin matchup at the end? Sometimes seeing a big upset in an early round is the most fun part of a game like this. Well, Henry Ford and Babe Ruth bit the dust early… ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/228 "2010-02-23T02:11:43Z")
Henry Bergh 3 Jim Thorpe 2 Jesse Owens 2 George Gershwin Thomas Nast Upton Sinclair ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/229 "2010-02-23T03:12:49Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I doubt the assumption that Khruschev was feeling out a young inexperienced president. If that was the case, then why wasn’t it done in 1961? I might also point out that if JFK had listened to the generals (including a certain Air Force general), none of us would be alive today to tell the story. Nixon would not have listened to them either. Plus Bay of Pigs and the Berlin Wall probably prodded Khruschev to act tough against Kennedy. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/230 "2010-02-23T03:16:41Z")
Five votes for Sitting Bull Five votes for Aaron Copland ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/231 "2010-02-23T05:40:29Z")
Thomas Jefferson x5 Thomas Nast x5 ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/232 "2010-02-23T14:35:35Z")
Update: Aaron Copland 14 Albert Einstein 10 Jesse Owens 10 John von Neumann 10 Thomas Jefferson 10 Thomas Nast 10 Edward R. Murrow 8 Jim Thorpe 7 John Adams 7 Upton Sinclair 7 Walt Whitman 6 Sitting Bull 6 Chief Joseph 5 Dwight Eisenhower 5 Henry Bergh 5 Will Rogers 5 Harry Truman 4 Helen Keller 4 Earl Warren 3 Eli Whitney 3 Langston Hughes 3 Robert Frost 3 Daniel Webster 2 George Gershwin 2 Jackie Robinson 2 Jonas Salk 2 William Seward 2 Alexander Hamilton 1 Henry David Thoreau 1 Ralph Waldo Emerson 1 John Pershing 1 Susan B. Anthony 1 ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/233 "2010-02-23T16:15:37Z")
It seems to me that some of these people had influence over the country out of proportion to the amount of exposure they have in the national consciousness. Roger Williams, for example – in setting his colony up for religious tolerance, he enjoyed the advantages early voters have in this game, of setting the tone and influencing the topic of discussion. How much is he responsible for America’s religious freedom? I feel like it could easily have gone the other way, and am inclined to regard him as one of those people lurking in the back of the national memory who did more than he gets credit for. Wikipedia also says he advocated fair dealings with Native Americans, which I hadn’t remembered. Similarly, Paine just wrote and stirred things up. But what he wrote _still_ moves men. Also, as I recall, his timing was good; _The American Crisis_ was first published during the moment of maximum need. His later career was focused on the French revolution, but his voice is indelibly a part of America’s start. Speaking of indelibly American voices, Mark Twain’s combination of folksy style and modern sensibility helped raise the world’s estimation of American rhetoric, and his relentless cynicism about the folly of man is what keeps his moralism from being empty preaching. I just think that while Twain may not have achieved as many concrete improvements as some of the others on the list, he’s on a very short list of truly American characters in the world’s consciousness. Frederick Douglass and George Marshall are two more whom I feel are probably undervalued in American history courses. They will almost certainly be bumped off eventually, but I’m glad to see them getting this far untouched. On to eliminations: there’s a few people I assume aren’t going to make the final shortlist that I am reluctant to vote off right now…because it looks like minorities are taking some heavy casualties in the early rounds. The only Hispanic I’m aware of (Cesar Chavez) was picked off early and aggressively; Native Americans are precarious on the list since most of them are here for resisting; and probably because athleticism provided earlier avenues for achievement, African Americans (and Jim Thorpe, and another minority, a woman, Babe Zacharias) are inadvertently bearing the brunt of the (otherwise justifiable, IMHO) effort to reduce the population of athletes. So, while I feel Langston Hughes probably doesn’t belong in the late-game listings (a fine writer and an authentic American voice, but not Founding Father-class) I am unwilling to boot him at this time and further the (almost certainly unintentional, and perhaps inevitable) whitewashing trend. Eli Whitney: **x4** His invention probably did prolong slavery. John von Neumann: Just not stirring me. John J. Pershing: the most pedestrian of the remaining generals Alexander Hamilton: **x2** Over-hyped, and as mentioned before, responsible for the Alien and Sedition nonsense. Jonas Salk: **x2** Interestingly, while I was at first inclined to boot William Seward in this round, largely for his initial contempt for Lincoln and being something of a schemer, I did some reading first, and changed my mind. His tireless antislavery efforts worked better than those of most abolitionists; he actually may have been as responsible as any individual for [ending the Atlantic slave trade](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyons-Seward_Treaty_of_1862). For that, I will forgive him for Sarah Palin and hope to usher him into the next round. 🙂 . ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/234 "2010-02-23T16:22:34Z")
I’ve been wavering on Hughes myself, but I don’t think I can bring myself to vote for the writer of “Let America be America Again”. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/235 "2010-02-23T16:36:10Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > …For that, I will forgive [Seward] for Sarah Palin and hope to usher him into the next round. :)… Uh… what? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/236 "2010-02-23T16:37:34Z")
Alaska. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/237 "2010-02-23T16:41:23Z")
Ah, gotcha. Well, as much as she’s moved around, she might’ve become governor somewhere else if not Alaska. Hardly seems fair to blame Seward for her. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/238 "2010-02-23T17:20:11Z")
Minorities are not doing so well in the game, but there is always Martin Luther King, who should go deep. He’ll probably go farther then the women; Susan B. Anthony and Eleanor Roosevelt are the most likely to survive until the late rounds, but neither is a probable winner. ---
**Author:** ![Stowed\_Bob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stowed_bob/32/3312_2.png) [@Stowed\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stowed_Bob)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2010, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/239 "2010-02-23T23:02:06Z")
Alexander Hamilton x3 Thomas Jefferson x2 Eli Whitney x2 Albert Einstein x2 Helen Keller x1 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2010, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423/240 "2010-02-24T10:25:47Z")
Lewis and Clark **x3** Dwight D. Eisenhower **x2** John J. Pershing **x2** Helen Keller **x2** Eli Whitney **x1** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/greatest-american-elimination-game-game-thread/528423.md?page=13)